• The VOIDRUNNER'S CODEX is coming! Explore new worlds, fight oppressive empires, fend off fearsome aliens, and wield deadly psionics with this comprehensive boxed set expansion for 5E and A5E!

Chris Pramas' blog from 3/25: Husker Dungeons

Devall2000

First Post
Below is Chris Pramas blog from 3/25:

"There's an old Husker Du song in which Grant Hart screams, "What do I want? What'll make me happy?"

Lately I've been pondering this in relation to D&D. The game and I go back a long way. I started playing when I was 10 years old and this began a journey that led me into hobby gaming and ultimately to a life of game design, writing, and publishing. So while I can and do play many other games, I find that I like having at least a little D&D in my life. The game has had its up and downs over the years, but it has a core that continues to appeal.

I've been trying to figure which of the many games called D&D is the one I really want though. D&D has a certain gestalt that it's hard to pin down exactly. When I look over the various iterations of the game, there are things I don't like about each one. Each version seems to fix some problems while creating new ones. I had hoped that 4E would learn some lessons from 3E. It has but the direction it seems to have taken isn't the way I would have gone. While I will certainly give it a shot and GR may indeed publish some stuff for it, I don't consider it likely that it'll become my D&D game of choice (though again, I reserve final judgment until I see the actual rules). Paizo is doing some interesting stuff with Pathfinder but it is going down an evolutionary route that again isn't quite what I'm looking for. And GR's own True20 wasn't meant to be a D&D replacement in the first place.

Grant Hart's answer in that song is, "Nothing! Nothing! Nothing!" I'm trying not to be that cynical.

Now I have, off and on, been tinkering with a rule set that tries to capture what it is about D&D that I like. I'm sure that's a surprise to no one; it's what designers do if you give them half a chance. The thing is that I don't have time to go writing a new game while working two jobs unless I'm going to do something with it. And let's be frank, does the world need my interpretation of D&D? This is ground so well-plowed that it's turned into mud. So I tinker a bit and then I put it away. It doesn't make any sense to pursue it, and yet I find myself thinking about it on the bus and making notes when I get home. I suppose I either need to find a way for it make sense as a published product or just forget about it. At the moment I am, as the Replacements would say, "stuck in the middle.""
 

log in or register to remove this ad

Devall2000

First Post
Below is my response to his blog. My response is by no means a call for an editions war. It's about finding the right D&D.

My response:

"I believe 3rd edition was needed but something got lost along the way.

IMO, too many combat rules combined with more dice rolls(multiple attacks, etc.) put a pinch on the roleplaying aspect of D&D. There's just a lot more page turning than I remember with previous editions.

Some have told me that I'm just nostalgic. However, it just doesn't feel the same. Maybe calculating CR's and being a bit pressed to rely on 4 member adventuring parties has something to do with it.

Don't get me wrong. I've had plenty of good experiences with 3E and had a long running group that used it. I will also continue to use it over 4th edition. I may steal a little from Pathfinder but I won't go over to it.

Maybe there weren't enough campaign worlds from the getgo. Ravenloft, Dragonlance, Birthright, Darksun, and Planescape all got cancelled with the new edition. Thankfully, some got new life with 3rd parties but only later on. I was never really much of a Greyhawk or realms guy so that didn't leave too much when 3E came out.

Perhaps there is something to be said for simplicity. It was easier to make a character and start campaigning in the previous editions.

I feel like I'm going in circles and remain unable to put my finger on exactly what it is. Maybe, there's not just that same sense of mystery. I don't feel the same when I crack open these new books compared to the old ones.

The answer could be to make the necessary changes to make the game play faster and not have to rely on miniatures and battle maps. If there was a way for 3e D&D and AD&D to meet halfway, that could be it. I know about C&C and that's not what I'm suggesting by making that statement.

That's all. I just felt like I had more to say on the subject and this is more of what I was feeling compared to my post from yesterday."

-Jamie
 

jdrakeh

Front Range Warlock
He could, you know, release the rough draft for free. Like Joe Williams did with the entire (previously published) catalog of Marquee Press. Or as John Tynes once did with the rough draft of the D6 System Stargate RPG. Or as the the Black 9 crew did with the. . . err. . . Black 9 (BRP) RPG. Just because a near finished product can't bring in $$$ doesn't mean that it should be abandoned or relegated to the trash.
 

Pramas

Explorer
jdrakeh said:
Just because a near finished product can't bring in $$$ doesn't mean that it should be abandoned or relegated to the trash.

Yeah, it's not "near finished" though. It's just a bunch of notes and ideas right now. To make a game would take serious work and that's the issue.
 

doghead

thotd
Pramas said:
... And let's be frank, does the world need my interpretation of D&D? This is ground so well-plowed that it's turned into mud.

It probably needs yours more than it does mine. Yet still, like you, I keep tinkering away at myDnD system. I put it away because I can't see the point of investing time in it, I am never going to produce a completed work. Then I find my thoughts drifting back to various elements, and once more I pull it up and work on it a little more. I can't help myself really. For as long as I have been playing, I have been tinkering with systems.

doghead
aka thotd
 

jdrakeh

Front Range Warlock
Pramas said:
Yeah, it's not "near finished" though. It's just a bunch of notes and ideas right now. To make a game would take serious work and that's the issue.

Ah, well that's different ;)
 

tankschmidt

Explorer
Devall2000 said:
Below is Chris Pramas blog from 3/25:

"There's an old Husker Du song in which Grant Hart screams, "What do I want? What'll make me happy?"

To keep with the idea of taking wisdom from lyrics/quotations, think about this one:

“…for everything herein is fantastic, and the best way is to decide how you would like it to be, and then make it just that way!”

Not great advice for a designer trying to make a buck, but when it comes to your home game, this is the time-tested approach that always seemed to work. How many people do you know who run 1st edtion/2nd edition hybrids, or BD&D/AD&D hybrids, C&C/3E hybrids, or d20/AD&D hybrids. Heck, right now I'm playing in a home-brewed Paladium/3E rules-lite campaign, I'm working on an OD&D/RC/C&C campaign, and my buddy is working on a 4E/Minotaurs and Mazes game. In my experience, very few people run an RPG as written. (At least that used to be the case; 3rd edition players may have done away with that to some degree, but I don't know.)

The internet is a great source of half-thought-out ideas for whatever RPG you want. So what if publishing your house rules would end up with Fantasy Heartbreaker number 3,256? We just have to take 'em and make a game.
 

Pramas said:
Yeah, it's not "near finished" though. It's just a bunch of notes and ideas right now. To make a game would take serious work and that's the issue.
You know what Monte did. He houseruled the heck out of 3E, and when fans where so incredibly interested in it, he put out a cheap PDF.

You could do the same. Don't put any pressure on it, try it with your private group, and if you and them like it, put it out. Or don't.

In the end, full time game designer or occasional DM, we probably all have our dreams of "the ultimate role playing game" (or at least "my genius 3E house rules"). Sometimes, we get far enough to use them, most of the time, they remain in a subfolder of our role playing game directory, last touched 3 months ago...

Which reminds me, I should really fire up my Macbook and check my TTT RPG. I had some really sweet ideas in the last few weeks, but I never wrote them down.
Or maybe I won't...
 

Darrin Drader

Explorer
I guess my question is why people obsess so much on trying to make the ultimate D&D. As Chris points out in the blog, this is ground well traveled.

Or, to put it another way, why are people so obsessed with heroic fantasy when there are so many other genres that are just as interesting? And why a system where everything always goes up in increments of 5%?

To me, the ultimate RPG system is setting neutral, streamlined for rapid task and combat resolution, and highly adaptable to whatever genre you want to throw at it. In my opinion GR already gave us exactly that with True20 (by the way, what happened to the website today? It appears to be gone). Of course I'd rather use a game system that's percentile based and have a power progression that isn't as steep, but I'm not going to get started on my "ultimate D&D".
 

GAAAHHH

First Post
Threadjack...

Devall2000 said:
Below is Chris Pramas blog from 3/25:

"There's an old Husker Du song in which Grant Hart screams, "What do I want? What'll make me happy?"...

Husker Du (their later stuff, anyway) is one of my favorite bands. What ever happened to Grant Hart? I know Bob Mould went on to other groups, but I never heard anything about Grant Hart after the split.
 

Remove ads

Top