Christian Persecution vs Persecuted Christians

[William Bonney]

I'm an agnostic atheist and do not identify as an antitheist by any means. I want people to be able to practice their own religions privately. The trend in the US seems to be the assumption that this is somehow a Christian nation - it feels like a burgeoning theocracy. The palingenetic ultranationalism that trails behind such fervent Christian advocacy is a bit disconcerting as well. Granted, I interact with many, many Christians who are well-mannered, open-minded, charitable, compassionate people. It's the militant faction that is getting louder, more aggressive, and more intolerant that I'm referring to.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

As noted, I'm a Catholic...and I agree.

 

[tuxgeo]

A couple of brief comments (yes, I'll keep them brief!):

(1) The First Amendment to the US Constitution declares (among other things) that Congress shall pass no law respecting an establishment of religion. (That's from memory; I may have messed up some of the words.) However, that Amendment does not say that the separate States shall not -- though a similar prohibition might be found in the separate State Constitutions. (I haven't read them all.) Is the First incorporated under the Fourteenth? If not, then Utah (for example) could legally Establish LDS if desired, and if the Utah Constitution allows it.

(2) WWJD? He'd shine like a beacon of Heaven*, and in His presence each of us sinners would fully see the errors (plural) of our ways. He wouldn't have to kick anybody! We'd each repent of everything we could in His presence.
(Prophecy of St. Malachy: Francis counts as the final Pope. Izzat true? If so, will JC return to earth after the papacy of Francis? If we keep witnessing events for a few more years, we should be able to see whether that comes about. . . .)

*well, duh!

 

[Umbran]

(1) The First Amendment to the US Constitution declares (among other things) that Congress shall pass no law respecting an establishment of religion. (That's from memory; I may have messed up some of the words.) However, that Amendment does not say that the separate States shall not -- though a similar prohibition might be found in the separate State Constitutions. (I haven't read them all.) Is the First incorporated under the Fourteenth?

Yes, it is. This was established in Everson v. Board of Education, in 1947.

"In Everson v. Board of Education (1947), the U.S. Supreme Court incorporated the Establishment Clause (i.e., made it apply against the states). In the majority decision, Justice Hugo Black wrote:

The "establishment of religion" clause of the First Amendment means at least this: Neither a state nor the Federal Government can set up a church. Neither can pass laws which aid one religion, aid all religions, or prefer one religion to another ... in the words of Jefferson, the [First Amendment] clause against establishment of religion by law was intended to erect 'a wall of separation between church and State' ... That wall must be kept high and impregnable. We could not approve the slightest breach."

(2) WWJD? He'd shine like a beacon of Heaven*, and in His presence each of us sinners would fully see the errors (plural) of our ways. He wouldn't have to kick anybody! We'd each repent of everything we could in His presence.

Theological question: Why do you think that? It isn't like each sinner saw the error of their ways and repented them when he was around the first time.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Beat me to it.

Here's the case:
http://caselaw.findlaw.com/us-supreme-court/330/1.html

 

[Ryujin]

Theological question: Why do you think that? It isn't like each sinner saw the error of their ways and repented them when he was around the first time.

Well he is supposed to return when everything finally goes down the dumper and an awful lot of people suddenly find religion on their deathbeds

 

[tuxgeo]

Yes, it is. This was established in Everson v. Board of Education, in 1947.

"In Everson v. Board of Education (1947), the U.S. Supreme Court incorporated the Establishment Clause (i.e., made it apply against the states). In the majority decision, Justice Hugo Black wrote: < snip >

Thanks for the reference; I guess I should memorize the name "Everson" so I can refer to it again.
I had wondered about the date of the incorporation; that helps.

On another topic, I wrote something about J.C. shining like a beacon of heaven, and all sinners repenting in His presence.

Theological question: Why do you think that? It isn't like each sinner saw the error of their ways and repented them when he was around the first time.

Mostly that's just a guess on my part. Back then, He had an unassuming form; people who didn't know Him might easily overlook Him on the street.

Now, though, if He returns, it might be without the restrictions of a human form. He could be different.
Theologically, going a bit ecumenical here and branching out from Christian theology:
I was looking up the Muslim idea of a coming mortal to be called "el-Mahdi" (the guided one); and in the Wikipedia entry about that topic there are mentions of a couple of ideas that were largely new to me: (1) the Muslims call J.C. "Isa"; (2) when Isa returns, he is supposed to abolish the jizya (tax on non-Muslims); and (3) His presence and teachings will be so obvious that the whole world will then follow Him.

Not only was I "branching out" there, I was likely going out on a limb: since I'm no theologian, I have little business even trying to connect Christian prophecy with Muslim prophecy -- but I thought I'd take a shot at it anyway.

 

[Sadras]

It's the militant faction that is getting louder, more aggressive, and more intolerant that I'm referring to.

Well from where I'm sitting, government and the media has a large role to play in that. Policies that are made into law as well as engineered or exclusive news coverage assists factions (sheep) towards a certain mentality.

 

[Sadras]

It's rather comical when the group in power complains about "oppression" because they're losing their privileged position and becoming just regular citizens. I wonder if that's how white South Africans felt as Apartheid was coming to an end?

We were thinking South Africa is going to go the way of every other African country - and given recent years given the current status of the country, I dare say we were right. Also the BBBEE policies implemented are a joke with little or no foresight.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

We were thinking South Africa is going to go the way of every other African country - and given recent years given the current status of the country, I dare say we were right. Also the BBBEE policies implemented are a joke with little or no foresight.

Care to clarify?