City of Heroes/Villians, Champions Online or DC Universe Online?

[Goodsport]

I'm familiar with how expansions work for a PC MMO (they're usually bought separately sometime after the original game's release), but how do they work for a console MMO? Do they come in the form of separate disc purchases or in the form of a DLC?


-G

 

[Morrus]

I'm not sure why I would want to play a superhero MMO so I can put on khakis and a polo shirt and spend time at work in my secret ID or go out on dates--that's what The Sims is for. However, it is true that superhero games are not very immersive. Nor or any MMO's IME, and I've played quite a few. CoX is like pretty much every other MMO, which is to say there's a lot of repetitive missions/quests that have you recycling a string of hotkeyed powers in queue-based combat. Champs Online and DCU Online use a more real-time combat system that is more dynamic and exciting in nature than CoX or most MMO's, but still falls short of what you get in a non-MMO game.

The main thing that damns all superhero MMO's to date is that they lack a physics engine, and without physics, superheroes and supervillains really aren't terribly impressive. Superheroes smash stuff. Supervillains smash even more stuff. But you can't go into an instanced mission and blast enemies through walls or chuck cars around or watch the beauty of what a handful of explosive pellets from a utility belt can do when you chuck them into a bad guy's ammo depot. You can't even tip over a chair. So, something pretty essential to larger-than-life comic-book action is lacking.

CoX also suffers because the developers took the "City of..." part a little too literally. You don't go to anywhere particularly cool. Rather, you spend a lot of time running around layrinthine cubicle farms and abandoned buidlings designed by an insane architect who desired nothing more than to frustrate his buildings' occupants. These places were certainly never inspected by a fire marshal. Champs learned from this lesson, so you get to go to a lot more interesting locales, like army bases and spaceships. Don't know what all DCUO has to offer in this department.

In general, MMO's (which seem to go less-and-less by the term "MMORPG") just don't have the variety and polish that other games do. You see the same animations for attack executions regurgitated over and over, for instance, so don't expect Arkham Asylum's robust set of moves for your dark knight. You'll just do the same kick or punch attack a million times. Likewise, locations get recycled with only a modest amount of reskinning.

Things you expect from other games--like cutscenes that tell a compelling, immersive story, or tricky bosses that require special tactics to beat--are rare at best. Imagine having to chase a crazed mastermind through his madhouse lair while maneuvering around obstacles that spring out and avoiding variety of fiendish booby-traps. Classic stuff, right? Now, here's the more likely scenario: you pummel each other until a health bar drops to zero. Mission complete.

MMO's are not really not about pulse-pounding adventures full of surprises and twists. They're more like Farmville, really. You log in, you grind a bit, you harvest a reward or two, and thereby make a little progress towards some goal you set for yourself.

If they did it better, I'd still be content with it, but they don't really hit the mark yet. You look at other game genres and you see real innovation. Instead of missions being pass/fail or handing out random loot drops, they have a variety of objectives, and at completion your are scored and receive a commensurate reward. if you repeat them, they evolve and give you new objectives. These days, you even get to compare your performance with your friends, so you get some bragging rights. MMO's are more about repeating missions than any other type of game by a considerable degree, so they should be masters at the art of keeping you coming back for more. Instead, they need to be taking notes from games like Arkham Asylum or Hulk: Ultimate Destruction or even Marvel Ulimate Alliiance 2.

DCUO solves most of that. Physics engine (not walls, but everything else is smashable or moveable). Very few power sets yet, but they have lots and lots of animations. Bad guts are varied (I just had to defeat an invisible teleporting guy - tricky!) massively varied locations - two HUGE cities, plus Area 51, Gorrilla Island, the Moon, Watchtower, Braniac's spaceship, and many more.

 

[Felon]

DCUO solves most of that. Physics engine (not walls, but everything else is smashable or moveable). Very few power sets yet, but they have lots and lots of animations. Bad guts are varied (I just had to defeat an invisible teleporting guy - tricky!) massively varied locations - two HUGE cities, plus Area 51, Gorrilla Island, the Moon, Watchtower, Braniac's spaceship, and many more.

Thanks for the info. How about throwing a min-review our way?

 

[Goodsport]

I'm familiar with how expansions work for a PC MMO (they're usually bought separately sometime after the original game's release), but how do they work for a console MMO? Do they come in the form of separate disc purchases or in the form of a DLC?

Would they even sell a boxed expansion for a PS3 MMORPG, for that matter?


-G

 

[Morrus]

Thanks for the info. How about throwing a min-review our way?

I don't really have the "oomph" to write a review of it. I like it more than its predecessors, it's prettier, but I wish it had more power sets at start. I hear they have more to add - but there's only 5 at the moment.

 

[thejc]

DCU seems pretty cool. The trailer itself makes me want to play.


[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H7Nf-m6WGl4]YouTube - DC Universe Online - Cinematic Trailer (Comic-Con '10)[/ame]

 

[Welverin]

I enjoyed DCUO for the little bit I played it during the beta, but the fact that I only played it for a little bit during the weeks I had it available is exactly why I won't be getting it. My game playing is to inconsistent for me to ever justify a monthly fee.

If it was free to play or a standard rpg I would definitely buy it.

 

[Guest 6673078]

Champions - did not like, design was just terrible and far too simplistic. Enjoyed CoH/CoV for a long time. Char gen was the best part, though. DCU is fun so far, char gen is not quite as expansive as CoX, but it is more free-roaming, which always makes for a better MMO.
To answer another posted question - STO (Star Trek Online) is so-so. I bought it during beta (and have a lifer sub), but the original direction the game was supposed to go ended up somewhere completely different. It is fairly restricive, in MMO parameters, tho they are trying to expand upon it. For all the work put into the game, it is sad that it is just a space version of "go here, kill 5 of those, turn in... go there, kill 10 of those, turn in"

MMOs I am currently playing (if anyone is curious) is DCU (all PvE servers) and LotRo (Gladden server). Currently awaiting SWtOR to arrive in September.

 

[Tanstaafl_au]

Because they're supposed to model superhero comics, which the devs, honestly, don't seem to read.

Think of how important secret identities are for Spider-Man, Superman, Batman, et al. There should be contacts you can only interact with in your secret identity -- either because they won't talk to you (J. Jonah Jameson), or because you'd put them in danger in your superhero guise (Mary Jane Watson), or other reasons. Likewise, you should be required to switch out of your uniform to infiltrate some areas -- no one will let Batman into their shady factory, but Bruce Wayne, who says he wants to buy the place, will be given the keys if he asks. Criminals should also be less likely to start mischief in the presence of a costumed hero, especially after a level or two.

Couple it with a more true-to-comics faction based PvP system (heroes vs. villains) and going incognito would mean dodging PvP, as well as the NPC agents of your enemy (cops or organized crime).

No one should be required to use a secret identity -- the X-Men don't consistently do so, for instance -- but it's a core component of the most popular superhero characters in the world, and for MMOs to not support it at all makes me wonder what it is they think they're emulating. (Of course, this is the same industry that gave us a Star Wars MMO without the ability to fly a spaceship for several years and originally made it essentially impossible to be a Jedi, because everyone was wanting to play a moisture farmer or something.)

And this also goes for combat and healing -- every superhero team isn't loaded up with "healers" (there are probably fewer than a dozen who've ever been a part of the JLA or Avengers in their entire lifespans), but CoX requires them, because the developers are using EverQuest as their starting point and not, more logically, a console fighting game, where characters recover quickly from most wounds once they're out of combat. That would be much more true to the genre, be easier to balance (making healers appealing to play is a headache in all games) and have more appeal to non-MMO gamers, who are most of the theoretical gaming audience.

My strong suspicion is that CoX was a superhero game because the developers wanted to make an MMO and seized on comics because it was unclaimed territory, not because they had great knowledge of or passion for comic books. (And yes, I know Statesman claimed he did, but his game sure doesn't show any evidence of it.)

Hrrrm. I think a lot of your points are simply the difference between pen n paper games, and MMOs. I'm not sure how you would implent game mechanics to make secret identies mean something without making them a must have.
I know role players ingame will just use a different costume slot of RPing thier alter egos, but nothing mechanics wise supports it.

I'm not sure how much you've actually played though if you think healers are the norm. In my experience of playing, you rarely get 'healers', one of the things I most enjoy about heroes is there is no need for a tank/healer/dps trinity. Buffing, debuffing and control is the more common and generally more sought after than a character who has focused on getting healing powers. Just about everything can be done by a pick up team comprising on any mixture of characters - which is good and bad depending on what sort of game you're seeking.

PvP is pretty much the suck in heros. The systems are there for mixed zones where you can commit acts of carnage, there's bonus extra special rewards for doing so, or for doing missions in the PvP zones, but for most players, they hate the idea of being forced to combat.

Cities is also a mish mash of stuff, western and asian comic tropes, plus elements of steampunk and more.
There is some interesting stuff in the backstory, but most often you'll be teamed and missing the text. Of late too, the storyline is all focused way too much imo on the new expansion, and updates keep hammering the thick story plots at you.
But it tends to be either play with a RP group, or you just there to bash things in face a lot.

As said, the costume character is wonderful. What you wear doesnt effect powers, so your damage with standing hero can be in battle armour mech like, or a zombie bride.
There's a lot of variety between enemy mobs. The same old same old maps get annoying after six months. Each side (hero/blue, Villian/red, and prateoria/gold) all were added at dofferent times, and have quite different stry arcs. Your now forced to try goldside with your first character, but I think you are better off trying red or blue asap. I'd make the character and then make another for each side. Heroes supports a lot of characters - 12 server with 8 character slots each.

http://wiki.cohtitan.com/ has a lot of info about the game if you want to see what the enemiy groups, missions, story lines are like.

But trials to all 3 are probably free - so I'd just give them a try.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

Champions - did not like, design was just terrible and far too simplistic. Enjoyed CoH/CoV for a long time. Char gen was the best part, though. DCU is fun so far, char gen is not quite as expansive as CoX, but it is more free-roaming, which always makes for a better MMO.
To answer another posted question - STO (Star Trek Online) is so-so. I bought it during beta (and have a lifer sub), but the original direction the game was supposed to go ended up somewhere completely different. It is fairly restricive, in MMO parameters, tho they are trying to expand upon it. For all the work put into the game, it is sad that it is just a space version of "go here, kill 5 of those, turn in... go there, kill 10 of those, turn in"

MMOs I am currently playing (if anyone is curious) is DCU (all PvE servers) and LotRo (Gladden server). Currently awaiting SWtOR to arrive in September.

The mission design has vastly improved with the Featured Episodes. The latest Romulan/Reman focused episodes were excellent. The episodes are considerably richer...

They are also remastering older episodes as well.

Unfortunately, the next few months, there might be no more Featured Episodes, but part of the reason is that they are restructuring their team for a more "aggressive" schedule - allowing new series in rapid succession. We'll see how that works out.

It also appears as if the Champions Online teams wants to adopt a similar concept for CO - Featured, weekly Issues.

The Foundry is planend for release on Holodeck end of this month, and will allow players to create their own Startrek missions. The quality will naturally vary a lot, but there are a lot of interesting missions already on the test server made by players...