Cleric´s 2 skill points is pathetic.

[GrimJesta]

I've always thought that your average village pastor would be an expert, not a cleric, but possibly an adept.

Thats what I did in one of my games. I was playing the village priest turned "smiter of all things bad" after his village and 'herd' were razed by Undead.

He was an Exp3/Clr1 (we started at 4th level). All of the expert skillpoints were theology, healing, diplomacy and sense motive. The cleric was the pain-bringer part.

-=Grim=-

 

[SHARK]

Greetings!

Grim wrote:

"The cleric was the pain-bringer part."

LOL! That made me laugh Grim! That sounds like a fine background for a Cleric, too, by the way!

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

 

[ConcreteBuddha]

NOT "we don't get enough skill points, every other game gives lots of skill points, the cleric can't do anything, +2 skill points doesn't hurt anybody, every skill should be maxed, 2 skill points is worthless, Intellegence shouldn't equal skill points" AGAIN!

Bleh! I wish the search function was working, I'd just copy/paste my previous counters...

 

[Shard O'Glase]

Someone with 0 ranks in Diplomacy, Bluff, Gather Information or whatnot is not an "incompetent". The average commoner has 0 ranks in Diplomacy, and yet manages to get through life without being continually thrown out of bars and such. All it means is that when it comes to delicate negotiations, fast-talking your way around a guard and other such matters where social skills are critical, there are better people than plain fighters to handle the job.

.

Again, do the skilled people step back when important fighting breaks out, because they might screw it up. I doubt it, so the fighter or what ever class should not be forced by lack of skill points to step out during delicate negotiations, and only talk in the no skill needed encounters like ordering some ale. If they are going to go to great efforts to try and balance the game for combat because combat rules all in the designers eyes , and it is balanced for comabt or fairly close to it, then it augt to be balanced out of combat as well which its not, and it isn't even close.

 

[hong]

I doubt it, so the fighter or what ever class should not be forced by lack of skill points to step out during delicate negotiations, and only talk in the no skill needed encounters like ordering some ale.

This is a remarkably silly non-sequitur. It is left as an exercise for the reader to understand why.

If they are going to go to great efforts to try and balance the game for combat because combat rules all in the designers eyes ,

You say this like it's a negative thing.

and it is balanced for comabt or fairly close to it, then it augt to be balanced out of combat as well which its not, and it isn't even close.

Life's a bitch, eh?

 

[Geron Raveneye]

Hmmm...

...there´s an easy comparison for these situations.

Combat situation: A low-level party faces an ogre equipped with a nice, large club in melee. The one most suited for this confrontation is the group´s fighter, the one least equipped for it is the group´s mage. If the mage now chooses to confront the ogre in melee, he may well do so...and will most likely end up dead --> bad end

Social situation: a low-level party is interviewed by a local noble who wants them to do a small quest for him. The one best suited is the group´s bard, the least is the fighter with 0 ranks in Diplomacy. Now the fighter steps forward, roughly addressing the noble with the wrong title and asking what comes out of it for him and his friends...and will most likely be escorted out the backdoor, together with his friends --> bad end

The point is that a character who is not well equipped to handle a situation is not "forced" to step back...but he has to live with the results of his failing skill in the respective situation.

 

[reapersaurus]

Life's a bitch, eh?

hong:
you are the most infuriating, anti-discourse poster on the boards presently.

Your posts seldom lead to greater understanding OR communication between the parties.

I swear, you are one step away from being a troll.
Please stop with the obfuscating approach, I know you're smart enough to contribute instead of detract from conversations.

ConcreteBuddha: INT shouldn't equal skill points.

Geron Raveneye: Bad analogy.
EVERY class has weapons it can bring to the table in combat.
Few have anything they can bring to the table out of combat.

Why is that approach so hard for some people to understand?

Shard O'Glase: You have been spot-on in your detailing of why this skill point situation is a problem.
Just because some people refuse to see it as a problem does not mean that it isn't a problem.

I'm glad that it appears that MANY people are giving more skills to all classes in their games, and it isn't hurting your play (it isn't hurting ours either).

 

[Rashak Mani]

More skills are certainly necessary to flesh out characters... even farmers can have some Knowledge Nature or Wild Lore... the Class system is very restrictive on character creation in number of skills and number of skill points.

As a DM I allowed everyone one non class skill and two skill points to allocate on background stuff and 2 more for profession skills... stuff they did before swinging swords and maces. The result were players with character more the way they liked them... and in most cases min/maxing wasnt present in their choice... Barbarians with move silent... Fighters with Tumble...

Skill are hardly unbalancing ... they should be more generous.

 

[Shard O'Glase]

A feat in Kingdoms of kalamar(I thought I saw it somewhere else 1st, but I'm not sure) that I dig lets you take exclsuive skills as cross class skills, or cross class skills as class skills. You can do this for a number of skills equal to your int mod, this feat can be taken multiple times. While I still think the number of skill points is a bit light for some classes except maybe the spellcasters who can fake a lot of skills with magic, being able to turn a collection of skills into class skills can save you a ton of points, allowing a fighter to gasp actually be able to open his mouth without offending people in touchy situations.

 

[telepox]

My fellowship includes a barbarian/cleric with a -1 to his INT, thus 1skill point per level. On top of this, he has no ranks in Knowlege: Religion because he would know NO other trained skills.