Cleric Power Comparison Thread

Stalker0

Legend
With all of the talk about various powers, I thought it would be great to get it organized and see what people think.

The point of this thread is to compare a cleric's powers to each other. For example, what 3rd level encounter power really strikes people as awesome, and which ones do they think are garbage?

This thread is for the cleric only, other classes will be handled in other threads.

My initial take:

Level 1 At-wills

I think the cleric at wills are pretty balanced. Sacred Flame I think tops the list, as its temp hp tends to scale very well at higher levels. However, lance of faith is a solid buff. I think the weakest one is priest's shield, AC bonuses are nice, but I would rather use righteous brand and get a nice big attack bonus. All in all, every power has good use.

Level 1 Encounter

On the strength side, it looks pretty good. Healing Strike = More Healing = More good. Dazing effects are great, so wrathful thunder is fine. On the wisdom side, I think cause fear is the red headed step child of this group. Divine Glow is one of the few cleric AOE's, and it gives your buddies a buff a long with it. Cause Fear can generate OA's, but it takes some very specific position to use it, and causes no damage on its own. Further, the character can move away and still attack in many cases.

So in this batch, I think cause fear is weak.

Level 1 Daily

I think the dailies are well balanced. Beacon of Hope and Guardian of Faith are sturdy abilities that have a general effect on the whole combat. Avenging Flame and Cascade of Hope work in slightly different ways. Avenging Flame has a much stronger ongoing effect. In many cases you won't get to use the effect of COH, because by the time you attack again, the creature will have made its save and won't be vulnerable to your attack anymore. But COH does more initial damage. So all in all a good set.

Level 2 Utility

Bless and Shield of Faith are both great buffs for an entire fight. I think Divine Aid is pretty weak. Divine Aid is nice until you look at sacred flame...and at-will power that can generate saves. Generally I prefer shield of faith to sanctuary, but a +5 bonus to all defenses is a massive increase, and it has a range of 10, great for delaying to right after the fighter goes and then giving him a huge bonus for a whole round of combat.

In general Cure Light Wounds is my least favorite. On the one hand, more healing = more good. On the other, I don't think the need to healing a character without surges is that big a deal. I could instead use shield of faith, a permanent +2 to AC for my party for the fight is likely to "heal" them far more than one CLW.

Level 3 Encounter
I like all of these as well. Blazing Beacon is designed for a more ranged oriented party, but for those groups that are designed that way +4 is a huge bonus. Command is just wonderful. Daunting Light does a nice amount of damage, and Split the Sky is a good status effect power.

Level 5 Daily
Once again all the powers look good. 3 of the powers all have a general effect on whole of one combat. Rune of Peace doesn't last as long, but the ability to completely shut down a creature's attack is very strong, especially since its a strength attack vs Will, which is a rare....so its very likely to hit.

Level 6 Utility
While CLW doesn't seem that good to me, Cure Serious Wounds is nice, as its a big heal, healing over half a person's hitpoints with one action. Or you can go with bastion of health, getting weaker but more frequent healing as a minor action

Compared to those two, I think Divine Vigor is pretty crappy. I know what they are going for, afterall its an effect that can help the whole party. But...the party has to have used its surges, they all have to be close by, and they all have to use their standard actions to get any benefit out of it...AND they don't get the cleric's wisdom bonus on the heailng (even though the spell has the heailng keyword, it doesn't actually heal anything itself). So unless you have a party of dwarves I wouldn't touch that power with a 10 foot pole.

And last is Holy Lantern. Certainly not as sexy as the others, but it has its place. Bonuses to skills are always good, especially perception...the most common skill in most games. But you have to give up some nice healing spells to get it. I think its useful in a skill heavy game, for most games its not worth it. But if skills are what you are going for, you can't beat it.

Level 7 Encounters

For the wisdom ones, you have Break the Spirit vs Searing Light. Now BtS does a little more damage, and a -cha mod to their attack rolls is great...except that Searing Light BLINDS THEM! Blind is an instant -5 to attack rolls, and that's assuming the person knows what square to attack. Now Bts is a Will Defense, which some may like for the mixup, but I think Searing Light is a better power.

Awe Strike vs Strengthen the Faithful comes down to accuracy vs raw power. StF is flat out better, more damage, and tremendous healing. However Awe strike is a strength attack vs will instead of AC, and that can make a big difference in the attack roll. Overall, I think StF is a better power, but wouldn't blame someone for wanting the consistency of Awe Strike.

Level 9 Daily
Blade Barrier and Astral Defender are both ongoing effects that have different uses. The greatest thing about BB is that its AUTOMATIC DAMAGE!!! Just plop the wall down on your enemy, and he takes 3d6 + wisdom damage...not save no defense, just eat it. The astral defenders are more mobile, and do radiant damage which is always great when facing undead.

Divine Power's Effect is so damn good, I would consider it even if I had no strength. +2 AC for the party, and regen 5...yes please.

And lastly we have flame strike. AOE, great ongoing damage...but I don't think it holds a candle to blade barrier. Blade Barrier you can mold to your likeing, it can last the whole fight, it does more initial damage and of course....AUTOMATIC DAMAGE! Flame Strike can miss, in which case it deals a lot less damage....BB is always going to start off awesome, and your party can use other movement effects for even more damage. I think Flame Strike is garbage comparatively


That's all for now, feel free to post your thoughts about the cleric powers and how they stand up to each other.
 

log in or register to remove this ad

fba827

Adventurer
Just a short reply for now.

When looking at the cleric stuff, i look at it as two seperate lists depending on the build, ranged or melee, since most clerics i would create would specialize in one or the other

At wills 1
The are all very solid, being either really good or great (no losers in this crowd). No comments beyond that.


encounter 1
melee - both are great but i'd opt healing strike first though simply because it does more damage and grants a healing surge. Wrathful thunder is good but depends on the situation (will you have others near the target to make use of that dazed condition, etc)
ranged - cause fear i wouldn't take only because it's one of those "in the right situation it's great but otherwise wouldn't see much use" (for me personally), I'd go for divine glow over it

level 1 daily
they are all pretty darn handy in almost any situation so that is a tough call for "favorite" or "least favorite"

level 2 utility
they are all very handy. in the end, i would probably opt for sheild of faith (ac bonus = always good) or divine aid (our group sees a lot of conditional effects, your milage may vary)

...
that's all for now , but a comment on flame stirke, even though it's not the greatest of the bunch it's grouped with, i'd still take it for a ranged build simply because i have always liked the visual in my head that the spell gives me, or divine power for a melee build so that i can be like he-man :D
 

IanB

First Post
I think the main use of Divine Vigor is for when you finish an 'encounter' but are for whatever reason going to be prevented from taking a short rest before you're into the next fight - any kind of 'attackers come in waves' situation I could see it being useful. Everyone can use their second winds if they haven't, then the cleric can recharge them before the next wave.

That said I think it still isn't going to be likely to get picked unless your DM is really in love with those kind of events.
 

keterys

First Post
At-Wills:
I think Righteous Brand is the strongest at-will of any class, by a solid margin. Enough so that I wonder if it will get 'nerfed'.

I agree that Sacred Flame > Lance of Faith > Priest's Shield.

Encounter 1:
I think Divine Glow is the strongest encounter power, followed by Healing Strike, then Wrathful Thunder, then Cause Fear.

Daily 1:
Close enough - if I had to, I'd rank them Beacon of Hope, Guardian of Faith, Avenging Flame, and Cascade of Light.

Utility 2:
Divine Aid is particularly weak when you compare it to 'Shake it Off' (Warlord 2) and realize Divine Aid should be a ranged 10 minor action.
Shield of Faith, Bless, Cure Light Wounds, Sanctuary, Divine Aid.

'Nough for now.
 

Victim

First Post
Unlike wizard walls, Blade Barrier only does damage to people in/moving through the wall, not to adjacent people. Also, as a wall it has limitations about shape - you can't double up on wall thickness, so a tightly packed group won't all be hit with the initial effect. And Wall 5 is pretty small as far as walls go.

Also, Flamestrike adds your WIS to the ongoing damage. That's a pretty sweet and unusual feature. Flamestrike is also selective damage, so you can drop it on enemies mixed with your party.

Searing Light is far less effective against creatures with additional senses. Break the Will also combos nicely with Divine Oracle.

Divine Aid is mostly nice because it actually grants an unnamed bonus to the save. It's not exactly the best choice, IMO, but depending on what other powers you have it still might be worthwhile. A cleric lacking in other powers to affect saves might want to retrain into at higher levels.
 

fba827

Adventurer
I think the main use of Divine Vigor is for when you finish an 'encounter' but are for whatever reason going to be prevented from taking a short rest before you're into the next fight - any kind of 'attackers come in waves' situation I could see it being useful. Everyone can use their second winds if they haven't, then the cleric can recharge them before the next wave.

That said I think it still isn't going to be likely to get picked unless your DM is really in love with those kind of events.

Regarding Divine Vigor (cleric utility 6), I actually think it's great for someone mutli-classing to cleric and no other dedicated healer in the group.

Speaking as someone in a group that doesn't have a dedicated healer, we go through second wind quickly since it is our primary healing source.

In a party with a dedicated healer, second wind wouldn't be used up as quickly, making divine vigor less attractive. But if there is no dedicated healer and second wind is getting used up quickly then it is more attractive.
 

Kraydak

First Post
.....
Level 1 Encounter
...
On the wisdom side, I think cause fear is the red headed step child of this group. Divine Glow is one of the few cleric AOE's, and it gives your buddies a buff a long with it. Cause Fear can generate OA's, but it takes some very specific position to use it, and causes no damage on its own. Further, the character can move away and still attack in many cases.

So in this batch, I think cause fear is weak.

Divine Glow is awesome at low levels. At high levels (with better Cha and allies with more impressive AoOs), a Wis cleric may well was to retrain to Cause Fear (which is a very good single target control spell).

....
Level 2 Utility

Bless and Shield of Faith are both great buffs for an entire fight. I think Divine Aid is pretty weak. Divine Aid is nice until you look at sacred flame...and at-will power that can generate saves. Generally I prefer shield of faith to sanctuary, but a +5 bonus to all defenses is a massive increase, and it has a range of 10, great for delaying to right after the fighter goes and then giving him a huge bonus for a whole round of combat.

Again, at high levels, with a pumped Cha, you might want to retrain to Divine Aid. A save can be good (it can sometimes be bad...). A save with a +8 modifier, on the other hand, is priceless.

...
Level 5 Daily
Once again all the powers look good. 3 of the powers all have a general effect on whole of one combat. Rune of Peace doesn't last as long, but the ability to completely shut down a creature's attack is very strong, especially since its a strength attack vs Will, which is a rare....so its very likely to hit.

If you pump Cha, then Consecrated Ground becomes a spell you will love for the entire game. Good AoE sustainable damage AND great, sustainable, no healing surge healing. What other spell can let a lvl 5 character take out 400+ lvl 1 minions?

Spiritual Weapon, on the other hand, is kinda sad.

Level 9 Daily
Blade Barrier and Astral Defender are both ongoing effects that have different uses. The greatest thing about BB is that its AUTOMATIC DAMAGE!!! Just plop the wall down on your enemy, and he takes 3d6 + wisdom damage...not save no defense, just eat it. The astral defenders are more mobile, and do radiant damage which is always great when facing undead.

Divine Power's Effect is so damn good, I would consider it even if I had no strength. +2 AC for the party, and regen 5...yes please.

And lastly we have flame strike. AOE, great ongoing damage...but I don't think it holds a candle to blade barrier. Blade Barrier you can mold to your likeing, it can last the whole fight, it does more initial damage and of course....AUTOMATIC DAMAGE! Flame Strike can miss, in which case it deals a lot less damage....BB is always going to start off awesome, and your party can use other movement effects for even more damage. I think Flame Strike is garbage comparatively

Astral Defenders kinda stink. They need to opponents to trigger AoOs. Flame Strike will hit (but not miss) harder than BB because of Astral Fire and the ongoing is much better. Further, FS only hits enemies, while friendlies can get pushed into the BB. Both are good. I also prefer BB, mind.
 

Mengu

First Post
I'll list what I think is best/worst, or best/second best, though in some cases the differece is so small, it's more a personal choice.

Level 1 At-will
Best: Rightous Brand
Worst: Priest's Shield

Level 1 Encounter
Best: Divine Glow
Worst: Cause Fear

Level 1 Daily
Best: Beacon of Hope
Second Best: Guardian of Faith

Level 2 Utility
Best: Cure Light Wounds (low level because you need it)
Second Best: Shield of Faith (swap Cure Light Wounds for this at high levels, since you'll have better healing options)

Level 3 Encounter
All average

Level 5 Daily
All good

Level 6 Utility
Best: Cure Serious Wounds
Worst: Holy Lantern

Level 7 Encounter
Best: Strengthen the Faithful (healing = good)
Worst: Awe Strike

Level 9 Daily
Best: Blade Barrier
Worst: Astral Defenders (for some reason I feel Guardian of Faith works better)
 


Remove ads

Top