Cleric (Templar) is Up

[IanB]

Nerfing damage is fine. They didn't compensate it with anything to make the cleric a better leader is the problem. It was already mediocre at best compared to the Bard or Warlord. Now, I put it below the Shaman and Ardent.

Well in the case of Fire Storm the 'real' nerf is moving the zone damage to end of turn instead of beginning IMO. The burst size and damage reduction hurts, but now the minions (or whoever) you miss can walk out of the zone before they die.

 

[Droogie128]

Here's the thing. The cleric was basically built around powerful healing and strong control. Now, its most potent healing has been neutered twice (Pacifist Healer), and the control has been reduced to lol. Not much left in the way of redeeming features.

Couldn't they have just made it simple, and posted "Forget this class! Play a Warpriest!"

 

[IanB]

Here's the thing. The cleric was basically built around powerful healing and strong control. Now, its most potent healing has been neutered twice (Pacifist Healer), and the control has been reduced to lol. Not much left in the way of redeeming features.

Couldn't they have just made it simple, and posted "Forget this class! Play a Warpriest!"

I don't know that the healing has been tremendously nerfed, I'm still going to have 4 minor action heals per encounter, three of which affect two people, still have a surge worth of temp hp for everyone at the start of encounters, etc.

 

[Droogie128]

I don't know that the healing has been tremendously nerfed, I'm still going to have 4 minor action heals per encounter, three of which affect two people, still have a surge worth of temp hp for everyone at the start of encounters, etc.

I was talking about Pacifist Healer, which has now been nerfed twice. That's all clerics get now, too. Healing. Leaders do a lot more than just healing, or they used to.

To quote someone from the WotC boards:

On the bright side, now people have a reason to play Runepriests. Because now they're the divine leader that DOESN'T suck.

And, ironically, they can still use Pacifist Healer, while the class it belongs to can't.

 

[shmoo2]

This is another example of what has been called "stealth errata". Personally I don't understand why the Sentinel needed "healing word" copied from the cleric, let alone why this cost the power its divine keyword.

This is super stealth errata.
My copy of the OFFLINE Character Builder has no Divine keyword on Healing Word.

I don't know why the change was made, but it probably wasn't because of the Sentinel.

 

[Droogie128]

This is super stealth errata.
My copy of the OFFLINE Character Builder has no Divine keyword on Healing Word.

I don't know why the change was made, but it probably wasn't because of the Sentinel.

I think it's because WotC has shown lately that they really have no clue how their own system works.

 

[ForeverSlayer]

All I've heard from people is how well the Pre-E classes and the E classes work at the table together. Why are they even doing this if they work so great together?

 

[Zaphling]

I still don't get the difference in flavor between Warpriests and Battle Clerics. Someone give more explanation? There was already, but it wasn't enough. Thankx

 

[occam]

Spiritual weapon is still implement vs AC... And now you don´t even get combat advantage for this attack...

But you get a minor-action repeat of the attack for the rest of the encounter; if it misses a little more often, that seems OK.

 

[Aegeri]

Steve Winter on the official boards posted this:

R&D is planning a design & development-style podcast for next week to talk about the templar and why some of the changes were made. If someone here puts together a list of Rule of Three-type questions, we'll be sure to pass them along to Bart before the recording session. (It probably goes without stating, but I'll state it anway, that questions that aren't wrapped around insults are more likely to be taken seriously.)

Steve

That is one podcast that will be worth the price for admission. I seriously cannot wait to see what on earth they are going to say here. I could understand these changes if they gave back leader riders or abilities to the cleric, but without that it's really way too much.

Edit: I have to say reading the official boards that this is the first time I've seen a near universally overwhelming negative reaction to errata. Negative reactions and gigantic arguments over errata are the norm, but this level of consensus from posters who regularly argue like cats with one another? That's the sign right there something monumental happened.