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<blockquote data-quote="procproc" data-source="post: 6863067" data-attributes="member: 6791328"><p>Sure, call it what you will. My point was that when you talk about "Wis vs. Chr", you really need to specify the context of what edition(s) you're talking about, because they've had different connotations depending on when you're looking at them.</p><p></p><p>What do they mean right now? I don't know. Ask me in ten years when I've got the benefit of hindsight. <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Even if the definitions are clear (which I don't think they are), it's not clear what the basis is for a cleric's receiving divine power from a god. On the one hand, that's somewhat intentional -- every DM can decide for their own game how and why it works. But the flip side is that if it's completely subjective, then you can't really make a compelling argument for one attribute as the basis for receiving that divine power.</p><p></p><p>I feel like the default assumption -- that we're working with here, at least -- is divine fiat, or "Wisdom makes a character more attractive to the god as a vessel for divine power." I can't think of any reasonable definition of "wisdom" that would explain why (for example) Thor, the Norse pantheon's drunken linebacker persona, would want to imbue that power in a character with high Wisdom than high Strength.</p><p></p><p>If I were going to try to explain that particular example, the only reasonable sense of "Wisdom" I can come up with is as a kind of spiritual constitution, the ability to withstand channeling divine energies without burning out. That also makes sense in the context of "willpower", or at least a resistance to effects that try to tamper with your mind/soul/spirit. It doesn't really explain why it's also the attribute that lets you find traps and track people more easily, though. </p><p></p><p>Perhaps more importantly, nor does it really have all that much to do with the usual meaning of the word "wisdom." And if we're somewhat arbitrarily re-defining words, then we could just as easily re-define Charisma to have those qualities. To me, Chr represents an "offensive mental stat" (that affects other people) while Wis represents a "defensive mental stat", so from this perspective Wis is probably better for a cleric requisite than Chr, but that's only my own intuition -- not something you'll find in the text of any edition, I don't believe.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="procproc, post: 6863067, member: 6791328"] Sure, call it what you will. My point was that when you talk about "Wis vs. Chr", you really need to specify the context of what edition(s) you're talking about, because they've had different connotations depending on when you're looking at them. What do they mean right now? I don't know. Ask me in ten years when I've got the benefit of hindsight. :) Even if the definitions are clear (which I don't think they are), it's not clear what the basis is for a cleric's receiving divine power from a god. On the one hand, that's somewhat intentional -- every DM can decide for their own game how and why it works. But the flip side is that if it's completely subjective, then you can't really make a compelling argument for one attribute as the basis for receiving that divine power. I feel like the default assumption -- that we're working with here, at least -- is divine fiat, or "Wisdom makes a character more attractive to the god as a vessel for divine power." I can't think of any reasonable definition of "wisdom" that would explain why (for example) Thor, the Norse pantheon's drunken linebacker persona, would want to imbue that power in a character with high Wisdom than high Strength. If I were going to try to explain that particular example, the only reasonable sense of "Wisdom" I can come up with is as a kind of spiritual constitution, the ability to withstand channeling divine energies without burning out. That also makes sense in the context of "willpower", or at least a resistance to effects that try to tamper with your mind/soul/spirit. It doesn't really explain why it's also the attribute that lets you find traps and track people more easily, though. Perhaps more importantly, nor does it really have all that much to do with the usual meaning of the word "wisdom." And if we're somewhat arbitrarily re-defining words, then we could just as easily re-define Charisma to have those qualities. To me, Chr represents an "offensive mental stat" (that affects other people) while Wis represents a "defensive mental stat", so from this perspective Wis is probably better for a cleric requisite than Chr, but that's only my own intuition -- not something you'll find in the text of any edition, I don't believe. [/QUOTE]
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