Clerics & Co. are Not MAD

[Nifft]

what paragon path does a str cleric take?

Iron Vanguard, Kensei, Scion of Arkhosia, Adroit Exploiter, Soldier of Conquest, Bear Warrior... there are bunches of Str-based Paragon Paths available via multiclassing, race, or setting books.

Cheers, -- N

 

[Flipguarder]

I would call not reasonably utilizing a class based paragon path due to the attack abilities in the paths given for that class a MAD problem.

 

[Nifft]

I would call not reasonably utilizing a class based paragon path due to the attack abilities in the paths given for that class a MAD problem.

Then you'll just have to wait until next month when Divine Power is out.

Get in line behind all the 9th level Strength-based Paladins, who are similarly short of options (unless they do something WILD and CRAZY like multiclassing to get better powers).

Cheers, -- N

 

[FreeTheSlaves]

I've played a STR cleric and brother played a CHA paladin, no MAD detected.

Does your brother not feel the need to have reasonable str, con & dex?

One of our players has a cha heavy paladin but lacks a medium+ ranged attack & can carry little more than his standard equipment without being slowed. His base 20 cha paladin is very strong in many regards, but the above do pop up.

 

[WalterKovacs]

The strength based paladin that is at level 9 has to wait until 10th level before being able to get his daily attack option via the multiclass feats. Divine Power will definitely solve a LOT of problems in terms of lacking options. MAD isn't really a problem as much as the 'half-classes' being underdevelopped.

Starlock is in a bit worse spot ... they didn't actually get a charisma based at-will in arcane power, but at least have some con based paragon paths to chose from. If you choose to go with the con/cha route (to get power versatility) and don't do much with intelligence, you need to get into heavy armor. Similar issue with a melee ranger that wants to go with str and wisdom. Even in PHBII there is one build for the shaman that wants to be in heavy armor, but has to spend feats (and thus still need to put a chunk into str) to get that armor. So, even though they only need 2 stats maxed, they are still MAD to some extent to either be able to wear light armor or get into heavy armor.

Some of it has to do with trade offs though. A strength paladin loses out on divine challenge damage, but can pump wisdom while still keeping 2 NADs doing well. Strength cleric loses out on the healing boost that comes from pumping wisdom, but they can invest in charisma while keeping 2 NADs strong as well. Not to mention, in both cases, multiclassing into str based classes is a bit easier than wisdom/charisma based classes, especially as your weapon will work for most weapon powers, while only divine classes use holy symbols (and the invoker doesn't even use one, so it's only three classes).

 

[Eldorian]

what paragon path does a str cleric take?

You know that a strength based cleric's second highest stat is supposed to be wisdom right? He can take any paragon path that isn't crazy about charisma and not really be affected.


Only the star pact warlock and the strength based paladin really have issues with needing 3 stats. Arcane Power didn't fix the star warlock, so I'm not expecting Divine Power to fix the paladin, but I can hope.

 

[Flipguarder]

Yes I know that, that doesn't change the fact that you have to take wisdom based attack powers with a cleric paragon path.

 

[Lord Ernie]

The problem with the Cleric and the Paladin isn't that they suffer from MAD (unlike the Starlock, which does). It's that if you want to avoid MAD, you limit your choices each time you get to choose a power.

A Sorcerer, for instance, can choose any of the powers available to him at each level. Yeah, some might be less optimal because of his chosen build, but he can actually hit as well with it as every other power he has - a cleric or paladin has a much more limited choice. At the worst, some levels (like Paladin level 9) has no choice at all for a certain build.

 

[Akaiku]

At the worst, some levels (like Paladin level 9) has no choice at all for a certain build.

The pali can actually just take another 1st or 5th level daily. I know in my latest game, the Invoker AND the Shaman did.

 

[LittleFuzzy]

(unless they do something WILD and CRAZY like multiclassing to get better powers).

Cheers, -- N

Which still somehow doesn't help those of us who actually play 9th level rather than starting in the paragon tier, since the power swap feat for daily powers has that annoying 10th-level prereq. Knowing that you're going to face a few sessions at the table with that deficit tends to encourage us to find a different character. Battle clerics share a lot of the same conceptual space as the Strengthadin, and their PP problem actually CAN be avoided at the levels of play in which it makes its appearance.

The pali can actually just take another 1st or 5th level daily. I know in my latest game, the Invoker AND the Shaman did.

That seems like a reasonable option, until you take a second look at the paladin dailies from those levels. There are three 1st level dailies, two of them are Cha-based, one is Str-based. The Strength paladin already took that power when he was first created. There are three 5th level dailies, two of them are Cha-based, one is Str-based. Again, the paladin already took the Str-based power, this time when he levelled to 5th. And as you're no doubt aware, while you can delve into your lower-level options for your powers, you can't select the same power more than once. Divine Power can reasonably be expected to provide a few more options at those levels, but it will also presumably be ameliorating the complete gap presented by the current 9th level dailies.