Cloak of Protection From (Alignment)

[Astalanya]

Got a bit of a problem in my campaign: several of the party members are creating cloaks of protection from evil. They figure, 4000 gp to craft (at 2000 gp cost to the party wizard), and voila! +2 to AC vs evil, +2 to saves vs evil, can't be affected by domination/magic jar effects and whatnot. Spiffy stuff!

But what it threatens to do is make a serious impact in the campaign because, due to the nature of it (undead goodness, for one), there's a lot of evil aligned creatures. I can't just make them all neutral.

4000 gp for this item feels much too cheap. Yes, it's limited to evil, but that's a pretty reasonable chunk of the campaign. I'd like to reprice it to make it a bit more reasonable, but I'm not honestly sure what it should be. This item is starting to feel like the infamous 'bracers of true strike' -- sure, it may be 1st level, but a continuous true strike item would be worth a lot more than what the DMG suggests a price for a comparable spell to be.

Can someone please help me figure out the appropriate cost? I guess an alternate look at the math should be [Deflection AC: 2000 x 4 (bonus 2^2)] + [Resistance Bonus: 1000 x 4 (bonus 2^2) x 1.5 for an additional benefit] / limitations for evil. 70% of cost? 50%?

I just don't feel kosher with the party being stocked up on something like this all the time.

 

[RobotRobotI]

I just don't feel kosher with the party being stocked up on something like this all the time.

"Well, this was a pretty good idea, but then our DM docked us each 500 XP for powergaming and told us the Protection Spells simply cannot be put into material form."

>_>

 

[Ridley's Cohort]

Can someone please help me figure out the appropriate cost? I guess an alternate look at the math should be [Deflection AC: 2000 x 4 (bonus 2^2)] + [Resistance Bonus: 1000 x 4 (bonus 2^2) x 1.5 for an additional benefit] / limitations for evil. 70% of cost? 50%?

I just don't feel kosher with the party being stocked up on something like this all the time.

Yes, you are basically correct in that you should ignore formula for the Level X Spell and look at the constituent effects.

You are forgetting the hedging out of summon creatures, protection from some mind effects, and protection from possession. So, no, I would give no discount and boost us into the realm of 15k.

If they only want the Resistance and Deflection bonus it comes to 10k, and I would give it to them at 70% cost because it only works against evil. At low levels, this will be very attractive item. But once you hit mid-levels there will be so many ways to gain the effects of Protection from Evil or other small bonuses to Resistance/Deflection on the cheap that the shine will wear off.

 

[SidusLupus]

Yeah but even then, I'd still wear it for the protection from mind influencing effects. That's really the best part of the cloak.

How do you price something like that? It doesn't prevent the effects from sticking, but prevents the effects from kicking in. That's really a powerful continuous ability. Maybe price it along how much continuous Mind Blank would be and give it a discount for evil only.

 

[Jack Simth]

Yeah but even then, I'd still wear it for the protection from mind influencing effects. That's really the best part of the cloak.

How do you price something like that? It doesn't prevent the effects from sticking, but prevents the effects from kicking in. That's really a powerful continuous ability. Maybe price it along how much continuous Mind Blank would be and give it a discount for evil only.

That aspect isn't Evil only, and in some ways it's better than Mind Blank as it doesn't stop beneficial mind-affecting stuff, just the particularly bad ones (such as Dominate Monster; of course, depending on interpertaion, it also doesn't stop such things as Hold Person, which Mind Blank would....)

 

[Infiniti2000]

How do you price something like that?

You don't. Some things just shouldn't/can't be made into magical items. This was pointed out in the true strike thread. In this case, as with true strike, it creates a direct conflict in the rules on pricing and therefore IMO shouldn't be allowed--because pricing it is too difficult, too expensive, not worth it, or all of the above.

 

[Nyeshet]

I suppose we could start with Mind Blank. It blocks out all Enchantments and Divinations. Suppose it only blocked out Enchantments, and then divide the cost by three?

So we have 8 * 15 * 2000 for 240,000 divided by 6 for a total of 40,000 gp. Now, this presumes a 15th level caster so lets reverse engineer for a moment:

40,000 / 2,000 results in 20 - which should be close to spell level multiplied by minimum caster level for that spell level (as such often work together). So let's see what comes close . . . hmm, it seems a third level spell cast at level five results in 15 while a fourth level spell cast at level seven results in a 28. Truly a third level spell cast at level six (resulting in 18) would be closest, but that would only be true for sorcerers. As the latter result (a fourth level spell) would be double what we are considering, that suggests we should go with the former result (a third level spell) which, at 75% of what we are considering, is much closer.

So, we can pretend that there is a third level spell that acts as a lesser mindblock against creatures of a particular alignment, ie: blocks enchantments (but not divinations) cast by evil creatures against the protected. Mindblock is subject to both a Will save and SR, so that sounds fair, I think. After all, Mindblock works against spells of higher level (including Wish), so why not its weaker part (which, as a third level spell, would be much easier to get around or otherwise negate).

So, we now have a means of determining cost for the part of Protection from Evil that deals with blocking enchantments. We already had the means of dealing with the bonus to saves and AC. That leaves the part that deals with hedging out summoned creatures. Perhaps we could consider this a form of Sanctuary? As it does not affect any creature except those of both evil alignment and a summoned nature (ie: non-summoned are not affected), I would drop it a level from sanctuary (to a 0-level spell).

So, how do the costs add up?

Lesser Mindblank vs Evil creatures equivalent: 3 * 5 * 2000
Deflection AC: 2000 x 4 (bonus 2^2) * 1.5 * 0.5^^
Resistance Bonus: 1000 x 4 (bonus 2^2) x 1.5 for an additional benefit * 0.5^^
Lesser Sanctuary vs Summoned Evil creatures equivalent: 0.5 * 1 * 2000 * 1.5

^^ It only affects a third of the alignments encountered, but these one-third of the alignments are most likely to be the foes of the PCs, so *0.5 is a better reduction than *0.33, which would be more accurate normally.

Add all of these together and we have:
30,000 +6,000 + 3,000 + 1,500, for a total of: 40,500 gp

Does anyone else think that perhaps the Protection from AL spells should be moved up a level?

Anyway, what do you think? Is 40k gp fair? I note that nearly all of the cost comes from the 'protects mind from evil creature enchantments' bit, but that is not really surprising. Note that if we go with the original surmising of the price for such (40k) rather than reverse engineering what level a spell for would have and then determining the price for continuous use of such a spell (30k) then the price jumps up to 50,500 gp (or 50k gp) instead. So I suppose you could use that price (50k) instead of the determined price (40k), if you wish.

 

[Wolfwood2]

Being able to cast Circle of Protection from (opposite alignment) at will is considered to be a Greater Power for intelligent magical items, at a +16,000 price adder.

So if you were looking for precendent, there's something at least.

I disagree with the idea that an item with a permanent Protection effect shouldn't be made, because it does seem thematically appropriate. However, it's certainly the right of the DM to adjudicate prices for new magical items. I think the primary mistake is letting them have a Caster Level of 1. For most items made with Craft Wonderous Item, I wouldn't let the caster level be below 3 (the minimum level at which CWI can be taken).

Using the formula, 3 (CL) x 1 (Spell level) x 2000 (base factor) x 2 (minute/level duration0 = 12,000 gp price. 6,000 for the party wizard to make.

That seems a little more reasonable.

 

[Infiniti2000]

Does anyone else think that perhaps the Protection from AL spells should be moved up a level?

Only 1 level?

Anyway, what do you think? Is 40k gp fair?

No. All of the reductions are HIGHLY campaign dependent and the DM specifically said that the opponents are evil (implying most if not all)--so no reduction. Note that all effects must have the same caster level.

Lesser Mindblank vs Evil creatures equivalent: 3 * 5 * 2000
Deflection AC: 2000 x 4 (bonus 2^2) * 1.5
Resistance Bonus: 1000 x 4 (bonus 2^2) x 1.5 for an additional benefit
Lesser Sanctuary vs Summoned Evil creatures equivalent: 0.5 * 5 * 2000 * 1.5

30K+12K+6K+7.5K=55,500gp

I still think it's a little low. Oh yeah, you forgot the x2 charge because PfE is min/level. Make it 111,000gp. That's about right.

 

[Wolfwood2]

Only 1 level?

No. All of the reductions are HIGHLY campaign dependent and the DM specifically said that the opponents are evil (implying most if not all)--so no reduction. Note that all effects must have the same caster level.

Lesser Mindblank vs Evil creatures equivalent: 3 * 5 * 2000
Deflection AC: 2000 x 4 (bonus 2^2) * 1.5
Resistance Bonus: 1000 x 4 (bonus 2^2) x 1.5 for an additional benefit
Lesser Sanctuary vs Summoned Evil creatures equivalent: 0.5 * 5 * 2000 * 1.5

30K+12K+6K+7.5K=55,500gp

I still think it's a little low. Oh yeah, you forgot the x2 charge because PfE is min/level. Make it 111,000gp. That's about right.

About right? You seriously think a cloak like that is worth 111,000 gp? No freaking way. It obviously and totally fails when tested in terms of actual game utility against assorted other items totaling 111,000 gp.

It's better to just say you don't want to see such an item in the campaign then to insult players by giving them such an obviously inflated price.