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Clogged Combats

Child of Hypnos

First Post
In my campaign it seems to take forever to get through a combat, no matter how many combatants there are. what is supposed to be a short, vicious battle is drawn out into an eternity, and it slows the whole story down to a crawl, or sometime grinds to a halt.
Im sure others have had this problem, so my question is simple;
HOW DO YOU SORT IT?
 

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Liquidsabre

Explorer
I think a little more info might help focus poster responses to better provide advice. Go ahead and give us a run down of your group: avg. level, what character classes are present, player behaviors during combats (any long pauses there? not ready with their actions? anything that might slow things down?), are there distractions at the game table? What is the gaming environment like?

There are alot of great tips folk can share but more info would let folk help alot more.
 

GMSkarka

Explorer
I know folks hate shameless plugs, but seriously....this is the perfect answer to your needs.

Adamant Entertainment just released Narrative Combat: Story-Driven Action for D20, which is an entirely new combat system (that still uses the same feats and abilities) that completely gets away from the tactical skirmish-level miniatures game that D20 has turned into.

Click the link for details. I think you'll see that it's pretty much exactly what you're talking about -- a way to run huge combats without taking hours to do so.
 

Janx

Hero
Well, whether or not Narrative Combat is right for you is sort of seperate. Using the basic d20 combat rules, it can be done fast. Therefore, there's probably something your group is doing that is slowing it down.

The most recent experience I have with fast combat is this: my friend is a new DM. He made an adventure for 4 1st level PCs (fighter, rogue, cleric, sorcerer). We had a limited time to run the game, from 5:30PM to 9:30PM. We plowed right through, we met in the bar, introduced each other, talked to the some locals, left for the dungeon, fought a brief skirmish on the road. Got to dungeon, explored 5 rooms, and fought in 4 of them (2 spiders, 2 goblins and bug bear, big scorpion, and zombie). Then we grabbed the loot and went back to town. In four hours, we did all that.

Some factors to speed:
# of players
are they paying attention
any distractions (TV, other people)
complex combats

Some tips to speed things up:
nobody likes to wait for more than 4 things to happen between their turn (limit total # of PCs and enemies).
Use a battlemat and some tokens to show where everybody is (helps players focus, instead of asking constant rehashes of the scene)
If somebody hasn't got a good idea of what to do, the "hold their action" until after the next guy (somebody who keeps mulling it over, rather than saying "I do ...")
Encourage players to think about their move while they wait for the others
Don't let players talk, outside of their turn, during combat
Use initiative cards or tokens to keep track of order during the round
Set a time to end the game, and stick to it. Folks will work to get more done, when they know they have a limited time to do things in.

Janx
 

Child of Hypnos

First Post
the campaign is still young so theyre all lvl2

Arto d'Cannith - Human Artificer2 - hangs at the back and takes potshots at opponents with a sling and magic stones. equipt with eternal wand of cure light wounds -acts as party healer.
259Y - Warforged Art1/Ftr1 - took adamantine body feat and carries a tower shield (AC22 & DR2/adamantine), tends to wade straight in confident that almost nothing will hurt him.
Aquiev - Elf Fighter2 - either shoots or charges.
Oberon - Elf cleric2 - uses up all Lvl 1 spells summoning celestial badgers then either hides or attempts to flank. occasionally prevents Aquiev dying with cure minor wounds
Thargor - Daelkyr Halfblood Ninja2 - either throws energy balls from his symbiont, or turns invisble and trys to sudden strike.

they tend to be quite attentive (at least until the combat begins to go on and on)
unless you count drinks as a distraction there arent any really.
 

Child of Hypnos

First Post
GMSkarka said:
Click the link for details. I think you'll see that it's pretty much exactly what you're talking about -- a way to run huge combats without taking hours to do so.
I wouldnt mind so much if it was just huge combats, - im talking ALL combats
 

the Jester

Legend
Minimize table talk. Stay on track.

Use cards for initiative. I use index cards- write down everyone's name and initiative on a card, and you can even track bad guy hit points and the like on the cards as well. Keep 'em in a stack in initiative order; when someone takes their turn, move their card to the bottom of the stack. If someone delays or readies turn their card sideways.

Only allow the players about thirty seconds to decide what they are doing. Otherwise make them delay.
 

Xath

Moder-gator
Here's an approach that I've used at low and high levels. Some people don't like it because it minimizes consulting time between players, but I like it because I think it more accurately represents what initiative is supposed to be. The difference between a 20 and a 1 is still only a split second.

Phase 1. Initiative is rolled by all parties (PCs and NPCs). The GM takes the highest and the lowest and begins an initiative countdown.

Example: Say the highest initiative is a 26 and the lowest is a 7. The GM begins at 26, and counts down during the subsequent phases. When your initiative number is called, you respond with the action appropriate for that particular phase.

Reasoning: I liked when we used to roll initiative at the begining of every round, and I think it makes it more interesting. It also sucks less to have horrible initiative rolls. Because of this, a combat "initiative keeper" isn't entirely practical. I've used the initiative countdown in games before and it works very well.

Phase 2. The GM begins an initiative countdown. In initiative order, all parties involved in combat give a brief explanation of what they intend to do with their round. If you intend to say anything "in-character," this is the time to do so.

Example: Player 1 says "I attack this guy" then Player 2 says "I will cast this spell."

Reasoning: In combat situations, people don't get the benefit of waiting for their turn to contemplate their actions. Initiative doesn't mean that people stand in formation and hack on their designated 6-second interval. It just means that in that designated timeslot, Player 1 acts a split second before Player 2. If you have something like Cleave, and you're attacking a group, designate your secondary and tertiary (if applicable) targets in this phase. If it becomes your turn to announce your action and you require more time to think on it, you may hold your action until the end of the round. If you say you cast a spell and after Phase 2, you realize that you didn't want to cast it, or it was a bad idea, you may choose to allow the spell to fizzle harmlessly, but you still expend a spell slot. Combat does not allow you that much time for contemplation.

Phase 3: Everyone rolls out their action.

Example: If you decide to do a full round of attacking, roll out your attacks and damage. If you believe you may have scored a critical threat, roll to confirm, and record damage for both a successful critical, and an unsuccessful. All dice rolls should be made in the open. Record all of your dice rollings on a piece of paper (or something). Do all math now.

Reasoning: While combat is lots of fun, watching other people roll dice can sometimes not be. I realize that this phase leaves a lot of room for cheating. I'm pretty sure I can trust you all not to do so.

Phase 4: The GM begins another initiative countdown. In order, the Players tell the GMs their total die results and the GM determines whether they hit, the spell goes off, they succeed, etc. (Note: Each attack roll should have it's own specific damage. If your 1st attack with max damage missed, and your second attack with crap damage hit, still apply the crap damage) At this point, the GM compares the NPC's actions with the ACs (or relative numbers) of the players.

Example: Player 1 says "I got a 24, a 17, and a 20 to hit." DM says "That's a hit, miss, and a hit." Player 1 had rolled 8, 12, and 10 damage respectively. Player 1 says "That's 8 and 10 damage." Then it's the next person.

Reasoning: Obviously, if you want to defeat your opponent, you have to do damage, or something. Voila. (Note: If you were casting a damage spell with a full round casting time at a specific character, and that character is no longer alive, it is up to DM discretion to determine whether that spell can be redirected. Area spells would not be effected. And in the event of multiple adversarys, standard action spells could be redirected. However if you are actively casting a spell when the last adversary is gone, you may choose to complete the spell, or to let it fizzle out, still losing the spell slot for the day.)

Phase 5: The GM compiles the round's events into a sucinct, if gory (maybe), description.

Example: DM says "Player 1 thrust his sword into NPC's arm, just as said NPC drove his spear into Player 1's shoulder. Fortunately Player 2 was there just in time to finish off NPC with a swift kick to the stomach."

Reasoning: This phase is optional, I suppose. But I really like description. And compiling the combat like this really enables things to move along more smoothly.
 

Krypter

Explorer
GMSkarka said:
Adamant Entertainment just released Narrative Combat: Story-Driven Action for D20, which is an entirely new combat system (that still uses the same feats and abilities) that completely gets away from the tactical skirmish-level miniatures game that D20 has turned into.
This looks pretty good, if it delivers what it promises. I hate the fact that D&D is now "wargaming lite", and this will do if I can convince my GM to try it. The problem is that d20 is now so complex, with so many feats and stats to keep track of, that it's not just combat that slows down.

And no, it's not "the gamers' fault." You can certainly make D&D into a fast game...by omitting most of the description, flavour and roleplaying and just running the combats by the book.

The quickest fix is to remove the attacks of opportunity rules and associated feats. Don't use a battlemat. Don't worry about positioning at all, except in the most abstract sense. Drop the critical hit rules. Limit players to a small number of feats, and substitute temporary or permanent attribute bonuses for the loss. Limit players to single classes.
 

Ick. I don't like it [Xath's system], because it completely futzes with the 3E initiative system, house-ruling it back to 2nd Ed. This is a step backwards. I can't honestly think of anything I like about it (especially the spell targetting rules). I also don't see how it could possibly speed up combat, since it requires you to go through the initiative count, what, 4 or 5 times per round rather than 3.X's once?

The only way you are going to get really useful advice in this thread is if you can more closely identify what you think is slowing combat down. Is it players talking to each other? Is people looking up rules?
 
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