• The VOIDRUNNER'S CODEX is coming! Explore new worlds, fight oppressive empires, fend off fearsome aliens, and wield deadly psionics with this comprehensive boxed set expansion for 5E and A5E!

Cohesion vs Railroading

random user

First Post
What I am learning to do, which works for me, is to really learn pacing. It's kind of manipulative, I agree, but it has really helped the overall stories.

My sessions last about 4 hours, so this also might not work for longer sessions.

Before the session starts, I try to plan out what my players might do, set an adventure, etc, all the standard things.

If the players deviate from that though, I have a stock of "independent encounters" to draw from. They are like random encounters, except they are pre-generated, and I try to have each of them provide a couple "weird" things that potentially make the party ask questions.

These encounters don't yet fit into my main plot, but it's always possible that the players will cause them to in some way. Some of them involve combat; others are just non-combat interactions with NPCs.

So an ideal session will go as follows:

Players do what is expected for a while. If they get off track, then, let them go their independent way for a little bit, making progress in whatever way is logical. At some point, introduce them to one of the independent encounter. Hopefully you will have one that is plausible.

If the party decides to interact with the encounter, great! If not (this is the manipulative part), you can make them deal with avoiding the encounter in some say (for example, let's say you have "an overturned wagon with some tracks leading away and some trinket hidden in the wagon" and the party yawns and continues on. You can still ask them if they are taking any pains to stay hidden, have them notice more tracks later, let them be smart and avoid an ambush or let them be stupid and get them ambushed etc.... I realize that the overturned wagon example is a very basic one, and not one I would recommend. However, it was one of those things that instantly came to mind.)

After that interlude, have the party get to where they were orginally headed. By now, it should be close (within 30 min or so) of when the session should end. If not, toss another pre-fab encounter at them. Give them some basic information about where ever they are now, and ask them what they plan to do. Ideally they will give you their ideas and then it will be time for the session to end.

Now you have some time to figure out exactly what's going on. Given that you know generally what the party wants to do, hopefully the party will follow along for at least an hour or two (or possibly even multiple sessions) before going off on some tangent.

If you craft your pre-fab encounters well, the party might not even realize they were dropped in randomly. And while this is happening, listen to your players. They can often help you tie it in to your overall plot for you. Even if not, you'll have time after the session to integrate it (or choose to let it stay as a stand-alone).

Also here is a huge tip for winging it:

*Always remember that NPC's can lie, or be misinformed.*

When you have them meet a random bard, innkeeper, guard, or even a librarian or merchant, remember that you can wing their conversation, and it doesn't have to be 100% consistent with reality (though it should be consistant with themselves). The merchant that was telling you about Themsinir? Opps he was thinking of Bastin when he told you about the general attitude of the guards and whether you could bribe them. The guard said that you could get a good deal and people were friendly at "The Spiked Anvil?" Well they are friendly with him because he's a regular, and they also try not to piss off the guards. But they aren't going to be friendly with random strangers.

The key IMO when winging it is to remember what you can allow to be inconsistant, and what you can't, and try to keep things (only while winging it) to be as general as possible (at least until you get used to it). The captain of the guard who has worked for 10 years probably isn't going to misremember a street name or one of the city leaders, but Strando, the guard who got transfered in from a different city, quite possibly would. Of course, the captain may also lie to you... and you might have a fun time coming up with a reason later he did.

Just my 2cp
 

log in or register to remove this ad

barsoomcore

Unattainable Ideal
random user said:
Always remember that NPC's can lie, or be misinformed.
This is SO important. I'd go further, in fact:

Always remember that NOBODY is in possession of the objective truth. EVERYBODY is selling something, and that will always distort their view of things. My players have learned not to take anyone's word for anything; they try and get stories from a variety of sources and then compare to try and puzzle out what REALLY happened.
 

shilsen

Adventurer
barsoomcore said:
Wow, there's been some great advice in this thread. I think we're getting better at this, gang! :D

Really? Bugger! I'll fix it.

DongShenYin, always remember that by the end of the session you must kill the PCs and take their stuff. And if you can do that to their players too, it's even cooler.

Ah, all better :p

More seriously, however:

Always remember that NOBODY is in possession of the objective truth. EVERYBODY is selling something, and that will always distort their view of things. My players have learned not to take anyone's word for anything; they try and get stories from a variety of sources and then compare to try and puzzle out what REALLY happened.

What he said. IMC, three people will see exactly the same thing and walk away from it with three different opinions and sets of memories, since these are mediated by their own perspectives and agendas. And in all likelihood, each will believe that his position is the unvarnished truth. Drives the PCs wild :D
 

Doug McCrae

Legend
DongShenYin said:
I think I get it. One of my worst experiences of being railroaded was this game where we played for SIX HOURS and got NOWHERE because there was only ONE door to the dungeon and only ONE WAY through the door. We couldn't figure it out and the GM let us run around in circles without helping.
That's not railroading. There's no accepted term for it but I saw a guy on rpg.net trying to popularise the term 'pixelbitch' for those sorts of GMs.

See with a railroading GM there's only one way to go. With a pixelbitch GM you can go any way you like but only one works.
 

Doug McCrae

Legend
DongShenYin said:
This will be my first time GMing a "real campaign", and the attitudes of roleplaying has changed so much since my college days. Back then there was no talk of "railroading" or "storylines" it was just "defeat the problem the DM set up and get cool stuff"
It's still about defeat the problem and get cool stuff. That's the meat and potatoes of *all* rpgs, even supposedly avant guard ones like Nobilis. To avoid railroading all you have to do is offer a variety of problems.
 
Last edited:

barsoomcore said:
In the very very very very very excellent chapter on running adventures in the d20 Call of Cthulhu book, Monte Cook says that good adventures aren't stories in and of themselves -- they're the PROMISE of a story.
Quite right. Although I believe that credit for that section should go to John Tynes, not Monte Cook. Although I've never seen a comprehensive breakdown, Monte has said he primarily worked on the mechanics in that book while John primarily wrote the "fluff." It also didn't seem like Monte's writing style, but he'd have to clarify, I suppose.

Either way, I totally agree that it's about the best GMing advice I've ever read anywhere.
 

Ranes

Adventurer
Joshua Dyal said:
My personal preference is to create an environment, with dynamic NPCs that have goals and plans, and then wind up that environment and let it run on its own. Throw the PCs into the mix and see how they impact the goals and plans of the NPCs, instead of trying to tailer the goals and plans of the NPCs particularly to interact with the PCs.
That's not exactly a bad piece of DMing advice.
 

Chimera

First Post
shilsen said:
What he said. IMC, three people will see exactly the same thing and walk away from it with three different opinions and sets of memories, since these are mediated by their own perspectives and agendas. And in all likelihood, each will believe that his position is the unvarnished truth. Drives the PCs wild :D

Makes me think of the Farscape episode where they're held and questioned after Talen blows up a ship. Each is questioned in turn, each gives a completely different version of the same story. The aliens are PO'd because everyone is lying. Crighton tells them that, no, they are not. It's just that they all have a different point of view.

Just remember. Human memory is extremely faulty and our minds are more than happy to make up details to fill in the blanks.

What color cloak was that thief who ran past you wearing? I bet all the witnesses do not give the same answer - even if the cloak was bright sunshine yellow.
 

Acid_crash

First Post
so, let me understand this so I am not confused...

Railroading is forcing players down a certain path that the DM sees as the only proper one

Cohesion is allow the players to dictate where they want to go and the DM basically following along

okay, cool.

So, isn't the difference not just the above, but in also how the players feel when playing the game? I think that, even if a DM is technically railroading, if the players themselves feel as if he is not, then is it railroading?

I've played in a game that was a lot of fun, but looking back I realized that the DM had railroaded us from the beginning, but he did it through NPC's and not just himself saying what we can, and cannot, do. Despite this difference, he still railroaded us but it was a lot of fun, and we didn't think he railroaded us. So, did he, or not, railroad us?
 

Tessarael

Explorer
Ranes said:
I spend a few hours a week trying to second-guess my players. Based on the outcome of the last session, I try to guess what they're going to try to do next session. I have a few alternative story outlines prepared. I have planted encounters and information in the players' path that I hope are going to encourage them to pursue one or two courses of action in particular. These are prepared in detail.

My DM will often ask, "What do you intend to do next session?" It gives him a chance to prepare. Doesn't mean the players will end up doing that, but it helps a lot. Also, the DM may derail the session from that player plan due to gameworld interaction. It works pretty well I think. It also helps that the DM has a lot of background material to resort to when the party wander off the beaten path (the game world is Mystara).
 

Remove ads

Top