Coins & Treasure surviving underwater

[Abstraction]

In the game last week, I was running off-the-cuff because I spent all my time making maps and no time making an adventure to put with them. So, I more or less guide the players to a ruined city. They had a combat, then explored a temple that had been explodiated a long time ago. Instead of an altar, there is a pit which is dry for about 40 feet, then filled with water for about 20. They drop a light spell on a piece of rubble in and see a bunch of glitter. They send a couple good swimmers in and manage to collect several handfuls of "stuff" before they dislodge the floor of the pit and the treasure goes sliding down and away down a submerged tunnel. Because I was playing by the seat of my pants, I told them I'd get them the treasure list of what they got next game. Before the end of the game, they figured out how to drain the water from the lower levels (which, unknown to them, also swept the most of the treasure along with the water to even lower levels) and are preparing to do a good old dungeon delve. With their historical knowledge of the region, I told them that the coins they recovered had to be several hundred years old.

So, here comes the question. Treasure horde A is submerged is chilly river water (not saltwater) for about 400 years. What kind of items would be completely unscathed (gems, gold, and ?). What would be present but damaged/rotten/rusted/tarnished? What items would present to pick up, but quickly disintegrate in open air? What kind of items would have completely disintegrated and couldn't possibly be present?

Thanks.

 

[jgbrowning]

I'd rule that any magic items would survive along with gold, mithral and gems. I don't know about how the lesser precious metals would survive, but you could probably do a quick google search and find out.

joe b.

 

[Olgar Shiverstone]

Considering brass, silver, gold, pottery and other artifiacts from ancient wrecks still turn up (albeit tarnished and potentially barnacle encrusted), I'd probably allow anything except for soft materials and non-magical iron/steel to survive -- but all suitably tarnished or disguised by sea life.

 

[XCorvis]

Everything I know, I learned from PBS.

Metals should all be fine. There might be some rust on the iron and steel, but things should be able to be mostly restored. Gold, silver, etc, should be tarnished but still intact.
Wood items would still have their form but be severely weakened. Maybe reduce hardness to 1 and half hp, but basically it's soft and not useful for it's original purpose. Artsy/ornamental object might still be OK, but weapons and regular equipment are ruined.
Glass/ceramic should be fully intact. Wax seals could potentially keep the contents (potions, liquor) safe, assuming they weren't banged around too much.
Leather would be like wood. Basically there, but not useful any more.
Cloth and paper should be basically gone. Those items that were inside a box or other "safe" place might still be in one piece, but would disintegrate on removal from water. If they were somehow kept dry (sealed scroll tube), the contents should be OK but very dry and brittle, and care must be taken to avoid damaging the items (especially paper).

Any magic items would probably survive fully intact, but should need a very thorough cleaning and possibly minor repairs. A suit of +1 chain mail might need new padding inside, but the chain itself is in perfect, if dirty, condition. Cleaning it and fitting the new padding would take only a couple of hours for an armorsmith.

 

[DragonShadow]

Scrolls are fine to keep. We have lovely scroll tubes to keep them in.

Of course, they aren't always air tight, so maybe the tube is fine, but the scroll within is totally waterlogged and thus illegible. Or maybe the DC to decipher it is even higher that it would be normally.

As said above, metals should be fine. Slightly ugly, but fine. Magical items of any sort should also be perfectly alright.

The only things I would stay away from would be cloth or wooden items. Wood tends to get warped and brittle, and after a time I'd say that natural life and erosion makes it obsolete.

 

[Abstraction]

As a rule of thumb, should I have the "tarnish" metals of copper and silver debased by, say, 20% of their value? Gold does not tarnish at all. Does platinum? I forget. Electrum?

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Anything organic- which does include certain "gem" materials like corals, pearl or precious woods could be destroyed by chemical or critter interaction. Papers, leather etc. treasures should be virtually valueless.

Amber could simply float away.

Refined, non-ferrous metals should be fine. Irons and steels should oxidize and rust somewhat, depending upon length of exposure, but could still be fine. Most precious metals should be unscathed. Silver should remain pretty stable- for the most part you need oxygen and sulpher to tarnish it.

Under exotic conditions, you might get some kind of electroplating effect that transfers metals to other surfaces...perhaps the right minerals in solution and a bunch of electric eels.

Hey, it IS a fantasy world, right?

 

[Treebore]

As a rule of thumb, should I have the "tarnish" metals of copper and silver debased by, say, 20% of their value? Gold does not tarnish at all. Does platinum? I forget. Electrum?

No.

They would only lose that kind of value if they are polished over and over again. Tarnish primarily builds up on the surface and does not penetrate significantly into the metal.

 

[MarkB]

When the wreck of the Mary Rose was recovered, a variety of items from it were found reasonably intact, including longbows, backgammon boards and even leather shoes. For images of some of these items, take a look at the museum tour on the official website.

Of course, that recovery was undertaken by highly trained professionals, and many of the items recovered would not be in useable condition. However, you might rule that anything reasonably intact can be returned to good condition with the application of mending or make whole spells.

 

[shilsen]

Since physics, chemistry, etc. in the game world are hardly the same as in ours, whatever you want to have there can be.