Combat Challenge and Oppurtunity Attacks

[theshard]

A situation came up the other night in game and one of the players posed a question I had not previously considered. I am still new to DMing 4e so I told them I would research it and have an answer before next game.

Here is the possible situation:

Player 1 is a fighter. He has Monster 1 marked. Player 2 steps up to Monster 1 and provokes an OA from Monster 1. Monster 1 starts to take his AO but does Player 1 (the fighter) get his immediate interrupt beforehand since he has Monster 1 marked?

 

[Trevelyan]

Yes, he does.

 

[Shaker]

Yes, and while that seems somewhat overpowered, remember that Combat Challenge (the immediate intterupt on hitting someone else) is an immediate action - that is, he can only take one of those per full combat round, whereas an opportunity action can be taken once per each turn (on my turn, then on this guy's turn, then on the next guy's turn).

Also another thing that confused me early on was that Combat Superiority (the 'you stop moving' and +wis mod to Opportunity attacks) doesn't affect Combat Challenge attacks, but only Opportunity Attacks provoked by movement. In contract, Combat Challenge is only triggered on attacks or SHIFTS.

 

[theshard]

Yes, and while that seems somewhat overpowered, remember that Combat Challenge (the immediate intterupt on hitting someone else) is an immediate action - that is, he can only take one of those per full combat round, whereas an opportunity action can be taken once per each turn (on my turn, then on this guy's turn, then on the next guy's turn).

Also another thing that confused me early on was that Combat Superiority (the 'you stop moving' and +wis mod to Opportunity attacks) doesn't affect Combat Challenge attacks, but only Opportunity Attacks provoked by movement. In contract, Combat Challenge is only triggered on attacks or SHIFTS.

Thank you for clarifying all of that. Very helpful.

 

[keterys]

It's sometimes quite desirable to trigger OAs that will in turn trigger combat challenge attacks. Ranged characters may find attacking ranged from flank or melee characters feel free to move on to better targets, knowing that hey, maybe you'll take some extra damage, but if you do you're still killing the enemy faster

 

[Kordeth]

Also another thing that confused me early on was that Combat Superiority (the 'you stop moving' and +wis mod to Opportunity attacks) doesn't affect Combat Challenge attacks, but only Opportunity Attacks provoked by movement. In contract, Combat Challenge is only triggered on attacks or SHIFTS.

Combat Superiority's +Wis to OAs applies to all OAs, not just those provoked by moving.

 

[DracoSuave]

Correct.

And yes, if you happen to be adjacent to a marked ranged attacker who is ranged attacking someone else, you -do- get to both Combat Challenge-attack him AND Opportunity Attack him.

 

[Goumindong]

This is especially potent in combination with halfling charisma rogues providing your DM is good about not using meta knowledge. Halfling Charisma Rogues with defensive mobility will typically stack up a +8->10 bonus against OA's before the fighters mark, which is, at paragon tier another -3, and if the fighter hits often, you have a good chance of triggering distracting shield.[especially with a dwarven fighter]

This combo runs between an effective +10 to +15 against the OA[most of which the enemy can't "see" before the attack goes off, since he should not have knowledge of the rogues bonuses or feats] while granting the fighter another attack for the round and frankly is one of the better ways to ensure that the fighter gets his CC attack off and makes him much more potent against solos and/or creatures with lots of area attacks.


Its even nastier with a Dwarven Fighter multi-cleric, Warpriest because then the Fighter is likely to get a CC off AND an OA and both attacks are going to be at +wis to hit

 

[theshard]

So to complicate this further, the player his a warlord and want to use his Viper's Strike in combination with the Combat Challenge so that the fighter gets 2 free attacks on the monster, if the monster goes after the warlord (1 from the OA provoked as a result of Viper's Strike and 1 from the Combat Challenge).

I am wondering, if there is a certain order these should happen in. Would both attacks take place simultaneously or would the combat challenge take place first, thereby stopping the monster's movement and then the OA due to the Viper's Strike not happen, unless the monster resumed his movement?

 

[Kordeth]

So to complicate this further, the player his a warlord and want to use his Viper's Strike in combination with the Combat Challenge so that the fighter gets 2 free attacks on the monster, if the monster goes after the warlord (1 from the OA provoked as a result of Viper's Strike and 1 from the Combat Challenge).

Correct, he gets both.

I am wondering, if there is a certain order these should happen in. Would both attacks take place simultaneously or would the combat challenge take place first, thereby stopping the monster's movement and then the OA due to the Viper's Strike not happen, unless the monster resumed his movement?

Resolve them in whatever order you see fit, but it doesn't matter too much--they're effectively simultaneous. Note however that combat challenge attacks do not stop movement. Only opportunity attacks do that. Regardless, both attacks would go off; you don't cancel an interrupt because the triggering action was invalidated.