Combat Cleric

[Gaiden]

Thanks for all the advice. It's given me something to think about. Now all I have to do is figure out what all the cleric spells do!

If you haven't PC'ed a cleric recently, IME, review of the spells is essential. The fact that so many of the spells provide similar type bonuses, and those bonuses are similar to items (as you already pointed out) is a real head-ache to mull through.

I currently play a 10th level cleric of Pelor in RttToEE. He has uber wis and chr with average scores in everything else. He is a combat haus with no feats remotely related to combat - all are for undead turning.

He usually prepares:

Righteous Might - this is an absolute must for any, I repeat ANY, combat cleric.
Divine Might (the old version raised your str to 18, so the initial score was unimportant), the 3.5 version gives you a +6 enhancement. It works out to be at 10th level a +6 to hit and +3 damage with a one handed weapon.
Recitation - from DotF - acts as prayer (luck bonus) but gives followers of your faith (including yourself) a +3 and allies a +2. If you don't care about your allies just go with divine favor which is only a 1st level spell and will net you the same bonus.

Shield of faith I think gives you a +3 deflection IIRC (at level 10 +2 and then +1/6 levels rounded down). Personally, I would just go with Protection from Evil. For one point of defecletion bonus less you get a host of other benefits. Also, you could go with magic circle if you are concerned for your party. However, the magic circle is limited. Personally I would rather buff everyone individually with PfE, which is in fact what I am doing currently - we are about to face Hedrak. Alternatively you can summon a lantern archon. Lantern archons I have found are best used for their MCaE and then casting aid on everyone. Presuming you use bless or aid, that is another +1 (of the morale type)

at 10th level:

BAB - 10 (+3 from DM)
Str - base + 14 (+6 enhancement, +8 size)
AB - +10 (BAB) +7+base (str-DM, RM) +3 (luck-recitation) -1 (size-RM) +1 (morale-aid or bless) +2 (weapon enhancement - GMW) = +22
Damage - increase base size - 2d6 (if using a 1d8 weapon) +2 (weapon enhancement-GMW) +7+base (str-DM,RM) +3 (luck, recitation) = 2d6+12
AC - base (ought to be 21 for full plate, +1 dex, and heavy shield) +4 NA from RM -1 size +2 deflection (PfE), effective +2 from penalty from recitation to enemies +4 enhancement (from MV on shield and armor) = 32
HP - +20 from RM +14 from bless (if cast by you) with DR5/evil
SAves +3 luck from recitation +2 from protection from evil +2 For from RM, +2 will from Owl's Wis

All in all you are looking at a +22 to hit (variable with your initial str), 2d6+12 dmg a hit, an AC around 32, 79 average HP's (variable with your initial con), and a minimum of +14 in your good saves and +8 in your bad save. You have DR 5/evil are immune to mind controlling spells, immune to death magic with death ward and if choose your domains and feats wisely can look to get true strike on your attack with a full power attack after a charge for even more cleric goodness.

My recommendations on feats: Power Attack, Divine Might (and start with high wis and chr rather than str and con), Combat Reflexes for the increased threat range. Also, IDHMBWM, but I believe certain deities have reach weapons as their favored weapons.

You will have used the following spells

1st - protection from evil
2nd - aid, owl's wisdom
3rd - magic vestment, magic vestment
4th - death ward, divine might, recitation, greater magic weapon
5th - righteous might

You have a host of 1st through 3rd level slots leftover. I prefer silence to cast on myself or another fighter to handle spell casters, entropic shield to reduce the effect of ray attacks, and resist elements to absorb some dmg from breath weapons and mage spells. Don't forget to prepare at least one dispel magic.

If you gain access to true strike, I would take quicken just so that you can cast the spell and attack the same round. You should be able to get your wis up to 20 (possibly with an item negating owl's wis) so that you can get the bonus 5th level slot. Another interesting 5th level spell is divine agility. presuming it would follow the changes in 3.5 it would give you a +6 dex bonus, the Spring Attack feat, and the base ref save of a rogue, converting your ref save ironically into your best save at +16 (varying by base dex assuming at least 12 dex). Combined with those resist element spells you will pretty much be immune to elemental attacks. The spring attack would virtual feat would mean that you didn't even need quicken as you could now spring attack in and out to attack after casting the spell. Also, I am pretty sure you can get haste in FRCS and simply cast, move, attack, move in that sequence with a wand of true strike. A good 750 gp wand of true strike should be easy enough at 10th level. Hell, take the feat craft wand, and generate wands of cure light wounds, and true strike, and protection from evils for your party. If you go with spring attacking make sure to either get access to expeditious retreat or get yourself some boots of springing and striding - even at the updated cost (IIRC somewhere around 6kgp) they should be well within your budget.

Of course, with any combat cleric build, all of this requires buffing time. You can use sanctuary if that is your fancy, quicken and persistent are nice, but you won't really get to use them until later. Personally, I go with just knowing about the battle ahead of time. Have your rogue, ranger, or monk, wizard, or sorcerer scout ahead. Alternatively, use chain of eyes (also in DotF) and then scry.

I forgot, a couple other good spells - invisibility purge and or true seeing.

Ok, I'm done.

God that's just sick.

 

[James McMurray]

Nah, I'd go with Elf and stock up on the daylight spells - drow hate light and elves hate drow.

But when you're walking around the Underdark glowing like the sun, you're just begging to be ambushed every 2 minutes. The extra -1 or -2 to hit you're giving your foes doesn't make up for the preparation and planning you allow them to have.

 

[Gaiden]

But when you're walking around the Underdark glowing like the sun, you're just begging to be ambushed every 2 minutes. The extra -1 or -2 to hit you're giving your foes doesn't make up for the preparation and planning you allow them to have.

I never said don't use darkvision or blindsight, I just said be an elf and stock up on daylight spells .

 

[Seule]

I'd seriously consider a Dwarven god with Waraxe in the War Domain slot, if there if a FR god that grants that. It's a martial weapon for Dwarves, so you can use it 1-handed, and a shield in the other hand is perfect for the doubling of Magic Vestment spells. You can, with a good Con, be nearly invulnerable with a pretty good weapon. You won't get quite as much out of investment in Str stuff (Power Attack and so on) but will be much harder to hit. And to those who say that with scaling attack bonuses AC doesn't matter, I point out that against Drow at high level they'll all have multiple attacks, and the secondary and tertiary will miss more against you.
You'll be able to load up armor and shield with specials like Fortification while relying on Magic Vestment spells to provide great AC bonuses. You'll be the front line tank, able to take a licking and keep on ticking.
I see that you haven't been leaning this way, but it is something to consider.

On looking in the FRCS I see that no Dwarven god has the Waraxe. You can point out to your DM that to Dwarves in 3.5 the Battleaxe is a redundant weapon: the Waraxe is strictly better or equal in every way, and requires the same proficiency, and those Battleaxes should all be changed to Waraxe in 3.5. That means that for this build your choices are: Clangeddin, Deep Duerra, and Gorm Gulthyn, which gives a selection from Dwarf, Good, Law, Strength, Evil, Mentalism, and Protection for a secondary domain. Strength is probably your best bet.

--Seule

 

[Darklone]

On looking in the FRCS I see that no Dwarven god has the Waraxe. You can point out to your DM that to Dwarves in 3.5 the Battleaxe is a redundant weapon: the Waraxe is strictly better or equal in every way, and requires the same proficiency, and those Battleaxes should all be changed to Waraxe in 3.5.

This might exactly be the reason why cleric dwarves don't use waraxes... no martial proficiency???

As for balance reasons, I don't feel obliged to grant clerics yet another boost.

 

[Gilrion]

But when you're walking around the Underdark glowing like the sun, you're just begging to be ambushed every 2 minutes. The extra -1 or -2 to hit you're giving your foes doesn't make up for the preparation and planning you allow them to have.

On the other hand, most deep underdark races have Darkvision 120', so they'll see you coming before you see them.
Of course, walking around glowing like this sun is going to attract attention, but once the action gets going a Daylight can do nothing but help. Besides, it is thematically sound, you're a benevolent cleric bringing enlightenement to your lost brethren.

Incidentally, Blindsight was errata'ed in Underdark. It is now 1 min/level, which I feel is more reasonable, even if my own cleric was nerf'ed.

 

[James McMurray]

1 minute per level is definitely better. I'm sure the DM running our CotSQ group will be glad to hear abot that change.

 

[Seule]

This might exactly be the reason why cleric dwarves don't use waraxes... no martial proficiency???

As for balance reasons, I don't feel obliged to grant clerics yet another boost.

However, all three of the gods I listed give martial proficiency in the battleaxe with the War domain. As I said, you should be able to point out that no Dwarf ever has a reason to use a Battleaxe when I Waraxe is available.

--Seule

 

[Klaatu B. Nikto]

Don't sweat the low wisdom thing, dude!

What does a cleric need a high wisdom for?

a) bonus spells
b) spell DC
c) increases will save

There's one other thing a high wisdom gives and that's access to higher level spells i.e. a wisdom of 14 grants you up to 4th level spells.

But that's only if such things matter to your character.

 

[Olgar Shiverstone]

Heh -- the original "Olgar Shiverstone" was a dwarven battle cleric who wielded a greatsword, with the War domain, and an Anger domain (custom for the homebrew campaign I was playing in -- granted Rage 1/day). Basically, he was a barbarian/cleric, and lots of fun to play. Feats, IIRC, were Blooded, Power Attack, Cleave, and Scribe Scroll.

If I were to do the same character over again in FR, I'd make him a dwarven cleric/barbarian of Haela Brightaxe, use the greatsword, and take the Dwarven Battlerager PrC.