Combat Rogue... ideas

[bret]

I'm assuming you want something that is mostly rogue with some combat capability.

There are a couple of different ways to do a combat Rogue that work well.

Going with an archer, all you really need is high Dex and Int. Not has much need for Con, although it is still very useful. This is the easiest way to do it. Make sure you have Precise Shot so you can shoot into melee.

Going with a melee rogue, you will want higher Con and Str than otherwise. You still want a Dex and Int. Here is where you are going to want a lot of tumble skill, so you can maneuver in melee.


In any case, I would suggest mixing it up with some Fighter levels. At 7th level, I would probably be looking at Ro6/Fi1. By level 20, you want at least 4 levels of fighter for the extra attacks, seriously consider 6 levels of fighter.

I'm not too fond of feint because it uses up an action. Instead, look at getting a Wand or Ring of Blinking and activate that when you need your sneak attack.

There are so many ways to build a rogue, it would help somewhat if you could describe what you are looking to get out of the rogue skill set.

 

[DM with a vengence]

Halfling Rog3/Ftr4

Str 14
Dex 19 (21)
Con 16
Int 10
Wis 10
Cha 10

Feats:
1 Quickdraw
3 Point Blank Shot
4 Weapon Focus: Throwing Axe
5 Rapid Shot
6 Precise Shot
7 Weapon Spec: Throwing Axe

You'll want at least one good magical axe for high DR creatures, and then a bunch of masterwork and regular axes for mooks. Get studded leather armor and a large shield for defense, and see if your DM will allow Bracers of Throwing (like Archery, but with thrown weapons). You may wish to go with throwing hammers to get the 20' range, but it's not that important.

 

[Jotun]

The rogue is often up on the front line delivering a flanking sneak attack. Our group's rogue PC originally started out Dex-heavy, Str-light and was going to be the PC in the back using missle fire as combat support. This hasn't worked out so well. Often the rogue is up in front acting as the whiskers of the party, the silent eyes and ears scouting ahead. If the opponents get the jump on the rogue while she's alone, it's already been a long, hard, fight. Additionally, since flanking is melee not ranged fighting, there's a lot less opportunities for a rogue with a bow to get sneak attacks.

If you're going to be a rogue, and if you're going to be on the front line, I suggest you go for Spring Attack. Spring Attack can save you from gettin' smacked. Rogues tend to have lighter armor (lower AC) and lower Hit Points and those things don't go well with being a popular target of enemy attacks.

The combo of Weapon Finesse, TWF, and sneak attack might work well. As a rogue, you can't hurt what you can't hit. Str and BAB is what makes Fighters make contact with their opponent. If you go with Dex, you can double up a high AC with a higher attack roll if you take Weapon Finesse as one of your feats. This was my plan on my first 3E PC, a halfling rogue. If this is the route you take you can compliment it by going with TWF. It'll let you double dip on the sneak attack dice.

If you're shameless, take a level of Ranger, a level of Fighter, and the rest in Rogue.

1st level, Dodge.
3rd level, Mobility
6th level, Spring Attack.
1st level Fighter, Weapon Finesse.

I don't know what the attack rolls would be on a maximized/powergaming PC like this, but it's gotta be a bit intense.

I really like the idea of a Dwarven Barbarian/Rogue. I'd try to work with the DM on making one of those classes favored. Good luck with whatever is the final choice.

 

[Rashak Mani]

Thanks... keep the ideas coming...

Someone mentioned 3.5 Weapon finesse... what is the change in 3.5 in that respect ?

Well just to make sure... if I have Quicker than the Eye and the bluff works... the guy is denied DEX and I get an extra attack if I have Exp Tactician right ?

Any DMs restricting the use of Large weapons on sneak attacks ? I know it might seem outrageous to sneak attack with a Great Sword... but not impossible logic wise.

I do want to rely on sneak attack for most of the damage thou... so any fighter levels will be comparetively low... 1 or 2 levels at most. Will think about Ranger or Barbarian combos.

 

[TroyXavier]

Weapon Finesse in the revision will apply to all weapons not just one specific. A much needed improvement...

 

[maggot]

If you want combat, go with a combat race: Half-orc. +2 Str is good. -2 Int doesn't really matter cause you have loads of skill points anyway, -2 cha doesn't matter cause you want to be a combat monster. Darkvision is good. Favored class barbarian is very good.

You want to be a rogue, so take only one level of barbarian. You don't really gain anything by taking any more levels unless you take four. If you are never going to advance this character (like in a one shot), a second level of barbarian buys a few extra hit points.

Take the Extra Rage feat if available.

Take barbarian a second level if you want more skill points. Take it at first if you are dedicated to combat (extra hit points).

Here is my focused combat build (38pts)

Str 16+2 half-orc = 18
Dex 17+1 level = 18
Con 14
Int 11-2 half orc = 9
Wis 14
Cha 8-2 half orc =6

Your INT is low, but you have enough skill points to cover spot, listen, and tumble. Sprinkle in whatever else you can find.

I went with high Wis, because getting held sucks.

As for items, go with a greatsword, tumble into place and hack away. For armor, you can go with a chainshirt, or a mithral breastplate if its allowed and you can afford it. Gloves of Dex are very cood in this case.

Try to get a +con item to raise you hit points. A +dex item is only good if you can get mithral breastplate, so go with a +str item or lower your starting Dex to buy some more STR.

19K: go with +2 con item (4k), +2 greatsword (8k), and +2 mithral chainshirt (+5k). If you have a cleric in the party, beg for a bull's strength.

 

[handforged]

maggot - a second level of barbarian also gets you the first level of uncanny dodge which you can add rogue levels to to get the second level earlier.

~hf

 

[Nareau]

In my RttToEE campaign, one player is playing a very effective monk/rogue

I'd suggest a Elf Rog1/Mnk6. Not much of a rogue, but could be enough:

Take the first level of Rogue for the skillpoints. Max out Disable Device, Open Lock, Tumble, Hide, Move Silently.

Get yourself:
Periapt of Wisdom +2 (4k)
Boots of Dexterity +2 (4k)
Bracers of Armor +1 (1k)
Ring of Protection +1 (2k)
Cloak of Resistance +1 (1k)
Other than that, it depends a lot on how much help your party members will buff you. If you can score a Mage Armor from the sorc or wizard, maybe a GMF from the druid, etc. You've got 19k to play with, so go nuts.

Str 10
Dex 18+2+2=22
Con 12-2=10
Int 14
Wis 16+2=18
Cha 8

Take Improved Initiave, Weapon Finesse: Unarmed, and Dodge.

You'll be attacking at
+8/+5/+5
Your AC will be 22 or 23 before buffs
Your saves will be
Fort 5+1=6
Ref 7+6+1=14
Will 5+4+1=10
You'll be doing 1d8+1d6 damage; keep in mind that with your initiative of +10, you'll go first in almost every battle. If you're not going first, your excellent movement (50') and high tumble score (+16) will make sure you can almost always flank (upping your attacks to +10/+7/+7). If you're not flanking, you can get your sneak attacks in by using Stunning Blow (DC 16). I'd advise against Feinting in combat. For one, that takes a decent Cha. For another, it takes 2 rounds and has a pretty big chance of failure. You'll do much better using your mobility to flank whoever is fighting the party tank.

You can stun 6x/day, with a save DC of 16

Anyways, just some thoughts. Oh yeah, you might also consider the fact that you'll almost always be able to take 20 on Open Locks and Search. So I wouldn't worry about boosting them much above 10 or 15 (since most DC's aren't going to be much above 30 or 35). Don't worry too much about getting your Disable Device too high either. It won't come up very often, and when it does you'll probably be facing traps with a Reflex save...which you'll very likely make, having that insane save (and you won't take any damage with your Evasion).

Spider

 

[Witch Doctor]

I'd say Rogue6/Shadowdancer1. Hide in Plain Sight allows you to be invisible without having those annoying casters with see invis spotting you. If you go halfling (I suggest human for the extra feat but to each his own), you'll have around a +19 to hide with a 20 Dex. Add in magic items and what not, you could boost that to around +44 (Ring of Chameleon Power and Elven cloak). Take Weapon finesse if human and you'll be in good shape, able to sneak attack almost anything.

However, this only works if un-sneak attack-able creatures are common, but even then they still can't see you =). Just avoid or get in a few hits, then back off and look for more prey.

 

[Zhure]

You have to have 10 ranks of Hide to be a Shadowdancer, earliest possible is level 7.

Greg