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Combat Tactics skill & Feint

Relic

First Post
I find the fact that a rogue can force/trick an opponent into making a mistake and/or creating an opponent better than the class who are supposed to be unparalleled in combat (i.e. fighters). D&D has the system set up so that the combat-focused skills are based on Bluff and Sense Motive, two skills that are cross-class skills for the Fighter. Thus, the Combat Tactics skill.

Combat Tactics (Int)
Class skil for warrior-types (Fighter, Barbarian, Ranger, Paladin, and priests who focus on war).

Combat Tactics grants the ability to make practical, solid observations in regards to combat. This skill may be used in four ways:

Combat Prediction: (as the Sense Motive: Combat Prediction skill in Sword & Fists). You get a good though general idea of an opponent's combat skill. This use of the skill requires you to spend a minimum of 3 rounds observing an opponent who is engaged in combat. You can take no other actions in that time other than moving your normal movement rate. You must keep your subject in view at all times. The DC is 20 +1 for every experience level your opponent has attained (or CR in the case of non-class opponents). If successful, you gain a +4 circumstance bonus on your first attack roll against the observed opponent. This attack must come within 24 hours of the observation or the bonus is lost. You cannot gain this bonus against the same opponent twice unless the character's level has changed sinse you last observed him/her.

Decipher Strategy: (as the Sense Motive: Decipher Strategy skill in Sword & Fists). You assess a combat situation and determine its true purpose. You must observe the combat for a minimum of 3 rounds before making the skill check. The DC is 15 +1 for every opponent you face. If successful, you determine your opponent's true motive (cut you to pieces, lure you away from or drive you toward a particular spot, rescue a captive, and so on).

Feint: This aspect of Combat Tactics allows a bonus to perform a Feint manuever in combat. Feinting is a miscellaneous Standard Action that does not draw an attack of opportunity. The benefits of performing a successful Feint apply to your next attack roll against that oppenent. However, if your opponent gets an action before your next attack roll then the benefits of Feint are lost. Against a non-humanoid creature you suffer a -4 penalty to Feint. Against a creature of Animal Intelligence (1 or 2), you suffer a -8 penalty. Against a non-intelligent creature it is impossible to Feint. A successful Feint allows you to benefit from one (and only one) of the following choices, decided at the time of the Feint skill check:

  • 1. Opponent does not gain his/her Dexterity bonus, if any, to armor class.
    2. Attacker receives a +2 circumstance bonus to perform any one maneuver (i.e. Trip, Disarm, Sunder, Bull Rush, etc).
    3. Opponent receives a -2 circumstance penalty to armor class (but retains his/her Dexterity bonus, if any).
    4. Opponent receives a -2 circumstance penalty to any one skill check or save.

Oppose Feint: Combat Tactics is used to oppose any Feint manuever.

I changed the benefits of Feint so that rogues are not the only class to benefit from performing a Feint manuever. Having been using this system in my game since 3E came out I find that it works exceptionally well.
 

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hong

WotC's bitch
Great, another skill for the fighter to blow his two skill points per level on.

"Feinting" in D&D isn't the typical "aim low, go high" type of thing that's part of every fighting style under the sun. If it was, either Bluff would be a class skill for the fighter, or it wouldn't involve a Bluff check. The feint maneuver in D&D is yelling "hey, look behind you!" and then stabbing the other guy when he looks. That's why rogues do it better than anyone else, including fighters.

The sort of feint that's taught as part of combat skill is rolled up into your base attack bonus, like everything else that's part of combat skill. Why do fighters get +1 BAB per level while rogues get +0.75? Partly because they know how to feint in combat, using the real meaning of the term.
 

Relic

First Post
hong said:
Great, another skill for the fighter to blow his two skill points per level on.

True. But, for the combat orientated fighter this is actually more beneficial. Instead of spending 4 points to get one rank in both Bluff & Sense Motive to being able to feint, oppose feint, or use the combat prediction or decipher strategy aspects of Sense Motive, the fighter now has only to spend 1 point to be able to do the same thing. And... it does not make the fighter better at tricking people (i.e. bluff) nor does it give the fighter insight into people (i.e. sense motive).

How is spending 1 skill point to do these things worse than spending 4 points? And I did mention it was a class skill for more than just the fighter. It is a class skill for the ranger, barbarian, paladin, and priests who emphasis war as well.


"Feinting" in D&D isn't the typical "aim low, go high" type of thing that's part of every fighting style under the sun. If it was, either Bluff would be a class skill for the fighter, or it wouldn't involve a Bluff check. The feint maneuver in D&D is yelling "hey, look behind you!" and then stabbing the other guy when he looks. That's why rogues do it better than anyone else, including fighters.

It is a matter of what a person defines Feint as. The gullible feint is "look! Your shoe is untied!" This is the "feinting" per D&D. This is the "feinting" that the rogue utilizes. The classic fake with your left and then swing with your right is the "feinting" that the fighter should excel at. The Combat Tactics skill makes this possible, and viable.

[QOUTE]
The sort of feint that's taught as part of combat skill is rolled up into your base attack bonus, like everything else that's part of combat skill. Why do fighters get +1 BAB per level while rogues get +0.75? Partly because they know how to feint in combat, using the real meaning of the term.
[/QUOTE]

Again, true. In the abstract system that is the BAB. But for people who prefer a little less abstract the Combat Tactics skill is a viable option.

I am not ignorant of the system of D&D, nor stupid. The argument of "D&D is not set up that way" is an acknowledgeable issue. I know it is not set up that way. It is, however, an adaptable and changeable system. This is one such change and adaptation that fits into the mold of the system. It is just an added skill... not a drastic change such as changing the magic system to resemble Shadowrun's magic drain system.
 

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