Combust Spell ?

[Ogrork the Mighty]

From the Spell Compendium (p.50), isn't this spell horribly overpowered as written?!?!

A 2nd-lvl Sor/Wiz spell that does 1d8 fire dam per caster level (10d8 max) with no save and the target may catch fire!!!

I'm thinking the spell is supposed to be limited to "combustible" creatures, as in creatures that are particularly vulnerable to catching fire (scarecrow, anyone?).

But the wording of the spell ("touched creature or combustible object"; "makes a combustible object or a creature's combustible equipment burst into flame" seems to indicate otherwise...

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

No, it can be used on anything. And it is very powerful. The main drawback is the melee touch range, dangerous for a sorc/wiz. I know from your other thread that you're planning on doing gestalt, so this spell might loose its drawback if the caster has d10 HD. Still, there's a lot of spells and abilities that end up becoming more attractive in gestalt, so I'm not sure banning it or nerfing it is the right way to go.

Direct damage is generally considered weak, especially fire. That said, using Energy Substitution and maybe Empower (with a feat to reduce the level adjustment on empowering like Easy Metamagic) can make this spell into a real killer.

As for catching on fire...it's really not that bad. Until an NPC used this spell in the gestalt game I DM, I was under the impression it took some kind of action to put the fire out, but by RAW it's actually a free action every round.

 

[Ogrork the Mighty]

Maybe it's not so bad afterall.

Scorching ray does up to 12d6 (although 3 ranged touch attacks are needed), Melf's acid arrow does up to 14d4, and flaming sphere does 2d6 per round for 1 round per level.

 

[TessarrianDM]

By itself it is not so bad, but used in conjunction with Spectral Hand (changing the effective range to medium) and a Rod of Lesser Maximize against Cold creatures it can be extremely effective with few drawbacks. The mystic theurge in the group I run has used this combination with great success from ranges over 200 feet.

 

[frankthedm]

Change the spell to deal 5 damage per caster level. Max 50.

Catching on fire means 1d6 more dmage on top of what the spell did. And if the victim did catch fire they have to roll a save for each piece of their stuff, possibly losing magical cloaks, cloths and robes which have anemic HP and don't get more HP when enchanted unlike Enhanced weapons and armor.

Catching On Fire

Characters exposed to burning oil, bonfires, and noninstantaneous magic fires might find their clothes, hair, or equipment on fire. Spells with an instantaneous duration don’t normally set a character on fire, since the heat and flame from these come and go in a flash.

Characters at risk of catching fire are allowed a DC 15 Reflex save to avoid this fate. If a character’s clothes or hair catch fire, he takes 1d6 points of damage immediately. In each subsequent round, the burning character must make another Reflex saving throw. Failure means he takes another 1d6 points of damage that round. Success means that the fire has gone out. (That is, once he succeeds on his saving throw, he’s no longer on fire.)

A character on fire may automatically extinguish the flames by jumping into enough water to douse himself. If no body of water is at hand, rolling on the ground or smothering the fire with cloaks or the like permits the character another save with a +4 bonus.

Those unlucky enough to have their clothes or equipment catch fire must make DC 15 Reflex saves for each item. Flammable items that fail take the same amount of damage as the character.

 

[aboyd]

I'm wondering if the weight limit reigns in this spell at all. What do you guys think?

Target: Touched creature or combustible object that weighs no more than 25 pounds/level

Does the weight limitation apply to the whole line, or is it coupled only with the text after the "or"? I'm leaning in the direction of it applying to the whole line, otherwise there'd be a comma after "touched creature" to help indicate the disconnect.

If it applies to the whole line, then the Combust spell sucks at low levels, as most medium sized creatures will weigh a good bit over 100 pounds. You'd probably need to be 6th level or greater to reliably apply it to humans.

 

[aboyd]

I was under the impression it took some kind of action to put the fire out, but by RAW it's actually a free action every round.

Really? Can you help me to see where that is? I only found 3 things that would help me to decide what kind of action it is. First, the spell itself says you can roll on the ground or jump in a lake to extinguish the flames. I would have to apply some action type to that, probably a move for the lake, and a full for the rolling. Second, I found the PHB page 141 says that dropping to the ground is free, and standing is move -- so I might attach both those, along with the AOO, to a "roll out your fire" scenario. Third, on page 128 of the PHB, it describes extinguishing flames from Alchemist's Fire as a full round action that grants the victim the ability to make a DC 15 reflex save. Rolling on the ground grants a +2 to the save. It doesn't say at all if this action provokes an AOO, but I'd probably say yes, even if that makes it a house rule.

Anyway, out of all of those, I think the most generous is simply "Free action to drop on the floor & move to get back up." So I'd like to learn how to turn that into a completely free action. What book text or SRD text can you point me to?

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

Really? Can you help me to see where that is?

Environment :: d20srd.org

"Characters at risk of catching fire are allowed a DC 15 Reflex save to avoid this fate. If a character’s clothes or hair catch fire, he takes 1d6 points of damage immediately. In each subsequent round, the burning character must make another Reflex saving throw. Failure means he takes another 1d6 points of damage that round. Success means that the fire has gone out. (That is, once he succeeds on his saving throw, he’s no longer on fire.)

A character on fire may automatically extinguish the flames by jumping into enough water to douse himself. If no body of water is at hand, rolling on the ground or smothering the fire with cloaks or the like permits the character another save with a +4 bonus.

Those unlucky enough to have their clothes or equipment catch fire must make DC 15 Reflex saves for each item. Flammable items that fail take the same amount of damage as the character."



No where in there is a type of action mentioned, though rolling on the ground and/or jumping into water are obviously at least going t obe a move action. But to just make the save roll? Looks like a free action to me. Mind you, when I saw this I made an on the spot houserule to make catching on fire at east a minor inconvenience. Can't recall what it was right now, and...I really should have written it down....

 

[aboyd]

I see. So you saw the same flavor text I did, but when you saw no game mechanic was attached to it, you left it as-is. When I saw it, I tried to envision what the game mechanic would be, and attached it.

OK. Thanks.

So about the other point. Does anyone use the weight limitation to limit the spell, or is that part pretty much ignored? I know I've been ignoring it, as I'm not sure how to interpret it. For example, if Combust is aimed at a person and then merely catches that person's gear on fire (as is implied in the description) then the weight limit is really useless, because the gear itself probably weighs far under the limit. Why would you ever need to worry about a creature's weight? I guess maybe if it catches hair on fire. Hmm. Not really sure about it.

Kinda worried that if I play this out to the logical conclusion, I'm going to have the Combust spell destroying clothes & cloaks & other non-metal gear. The players are going to get pissed to see their almost-acquired magic items burn up. Maybe that's the point. Maybe that's the drawback for the spell being otherwise awesome.

 

[Varianor Abroad]

I would think that any round a person is on fire, it's reasonable to take a move action to put yourself out. That's it. No save.

Note that magic cloaks get far better saves than non-magic equipment.

Personally, I would change this to 1d6 instead of 1d8. Note that as a single target spell, it's still subject to the caps in the DMG, which I believe make it 10d6 (10d8 in the original) max damage.