Comeliness has returned!

[DragonShadow]

I've never bothered with comliness, or even your Charisma determining the way you look.

Out and out, your Charisma stat is how the world perceives you, and how you interact with it. Your looks have nothing to do with it. The whole "beauty is in the eye of the beholder" thing.

You can look great, but if you generally don't take care of yourself (something which I've used and seen used to explain why a character has a low Charisma score) and hate people at large, then you're not going to have a great reception at the banquet the party has gotten themselves invited to.

...the way any character looks has absolutely no effect on the game, so just let it go. Use your Charisma for whatever skills/abilities it's needed for and then don't worry about the rest of it.

Unless you have a horny Ogre on your hands.

 

[Umbran]

Charisma should be split up into two separate attributes.

Don't go there. Similar argument can be made for each of the six attributes. The game has enough bookkeeping as it is without having 12 separate attributes.

 

[Klaus]

And Player's Options for 2e already had 12 attributes. The 6 base attributes were each the average of 2 subabilities.

Not pretty, no sir.

 

[Estlor]

I did like the subabilities in 2e, but the skill system of 3e makes that a nightmare. Now you have to go through each skill and adjudicate which subability determines it, attempting to keep each subability balanced against the whole so as to prevent any subability from becoming a "dump stat."

For example, say Charisma becomes Apperance and Personality. Say personality powers turning undead and charisma-based spellcasting. If you're a cleric, what's to prevent you from using the subability system to take a massive penalty on appearance to ensure you have a mad-high bonus to turn undead?

 

[Torm]

If you're a cleric, what's to prevent you from using the subability system to take a massive penalty on appearance to ensure you have a mad-high bonus to turn undead?

Don't tie them to each other directly for assignation of scores. The subability system allowed you to raise one a little at the expense of the other. What I'm thinking, instead, is more like 4d6, drop lowest, roll 8 times, drop lowest, and put 'em where ya want 'em amongst 7 whole, equal ability scores.

 

[Umbran]

...and put 'em where ya want 'em amongst 7 whole, equal ability scores.

And then follow up with five hours explaining to the players why each of their favorite ability scores doesn't also get split.

The argument that Charisma contains unrelated aspects that should get split apart is fundamentally flawed, in that every ability has aspects that aren't really related. Dexterity lumps together eye-hand coordination and full-body coordination. Wisdom lumps together willpower and perceptiveness and common sense. Constitution lumps together the immune system and cardiovascular health. Strength covers carrying capacity and striking power. Intelligence covers both menmory and reasoning.

 

[spigadang]

I see no reason for it.

To many people wamt to add this as a new stat. I say no. One it has no barring on the as is. You add it it askews the chance for you to have an 18 for one of 7 stats now. Also i see the example of what about the pretty princess. She could not Intemidate me but she can use dip very well. That is not beacuse of the 18 char it is beacause she has 19 ranks in dip. The Barb who has a low Char he has a hard time at Int beacuse of the way he carries himself. He will be int If you add the ranks to it if not he is that 5'10 300 lbs kid in you high school class that was as meek as a lamb. That is that way that stats works. You can say my Pc is ugly or good looking that has very little to do with char it is more about how you carry yourself. And i would say no to spilting that skills used for char and comeliness. What about dip is that char or looks? what about a little guy who can int really well he may not be the size to do he KNOWS how to work people. I belive people look at stats as the end all to be all . It is not stats that make your pc, It is the ransk you put in to skills. That is where the true power of the PC is.

 

[Klaus]

I did like the subabilities in 2e, but the skill system of 3e makes that a nightmare. Now you have to go through each skill and adjudicate which subability determines it, attempting to keep each subability balanced against the whole so as to prevent any subability from becoming a "dump stat."

For example, say Charisma becomes Apperance and Personality. Say personality powers turning undead and charisma-based spellcasting. If you're a cleric, what's to prevent you from using the subability system to take a massive penalty on appearance to ensure you have a mad-high bonus to turn undead?

Well, there's the fact that in Player's Options you could only have subabilities with up to 4 points in difference. So a Charisma 18 could be, at most, Personality 20 and Appearance 16. You're gaining a +1 bonus in some effects and a -1 penalty on others.

It wasn't a bad system, but the bookkeeping was murder!

 

[The Grumpy Celt]

Sorry dagger, looks like you're a 4...

Woah...

That's beyond butt ugly. I've seen my butt. It's not as bad as your face.

 

[reveal]

Woah...

That's beyond butt ugly. I've seen my butt. It's not as bad as your face.

Guy: "Hey buddy, you got a light?"

Drunk: "Ya, I got a light. Your butt and my face; get out of here!"

Drunk: "..."

Drunk: "Wait a minute, that's 'have you got a match' not a light. And it's not YOUR butt and MY face, it's... Hey! Come back here!"