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Commoners - thorns in arrogant PC's sides

Umbra

First Post
Saeviomagy said:
The way that those NPCs then 'fix' the PCs is by being well-played, sensible, useful people that give respect where respect is due, and otherwise contribute to the storyline.
Absolutely, if the problem is the NPC's the DM must change his ways. Let's assume for the rest of the thread that this isn't the problem.
Saeviomagy said:
But don't jump straight to "that young boy who tried to pick the pocket of a 10th level saviour of his town and is (probably quite rightfully) having his butt kicked happens to have a great uncle's brother's former roommate's wife who is an ancient wyrm gold dragon with a taste for violent vengeance, and he comes to give the smackdown".
I thought posters (including me) have been posting with qualifiers - can become, if they, what do you have the locals do when characters cross, etc - or are posting in response to the qualified problem. Their posts include a range of reactions from the minor to the silly. The extreme view is not the predominant one. If your statements came across as qualified rather than blanket I would agree with you.

Be careful you don't overreact/turn the game into them vs. us/etc are valid points but implying this is what is happening, this is what dm's are doing, isn't fair. Some may be. But I doubt all (or even most) are.

Nor do I believe that people are saying that PC's should have the wrath of the DM decending upon them for dealing with a crime against them (a pickpocket in your example). Although if they overreact or take the law into their own hands it might be a different issue.
 

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Dannyalcatraz

Schmoderator
Staff member
Supporter
Something I have learned from real life- sometimes, commoners aren't so common after all.

I had to go read a document in a Judge's chambers once, and was met by two women who all but ignored me as I waited patiently as they discussed clothes and jewelry shopping...I said nothing. After about 10 minutes, one turned and asked what I wanted, and I explained what I needed (politely), which she gave me. Just after I started reading the case in the adjacent room, another lawyer entered the office, and said to the one who handed me the document to review... "Hi there, Judge!"

My point?

Just because you're in a small village it doesn't mean everyone in town is a mook, regardless of appearances. That barkeep could be a retired Bard, the drunk in the corner, his former adventuring buddy, a Ranger of some prowess.

And so forth...
 


Thornir Alekeg

Albatross!
Maldin said:
ROFL!! In my own campaign, a party found the deed to one of the properties they "adventured" in, and wanted to register the deed so that they could move in and use it as a base of operations. That produced an entire night of role playing where not a sword was unsheathed. The ridiculous steps that they had to go through are described on my website on a page called "Registering the Deed" at http://melkot.com/mechanics/deed.html
Check it out if you want to torture your players with thesame sort of bureacracy ;-)

That is just beautiful.

Now I regret even more the break-up of my old group. I would have had the perfect setup for this and I think they would have actually appreciated the entire thing.
 

Maldin said:
ROFL!! In my own campaign, a party found the deed to one of the properties they "adventured" in, and wanted to register the deed so that they could move in and use it as a base of operations. ....The ridiculous steps that they had to go through are ..... if you want to torture your players with thesame sort of bureacracy ;-)

I generally don't torment my players with bureacracy. At least, not if they make a few Int checks to see how feasible a given activity is. "Finders Keepers" can be justified with a bag of coins but things are different with property.

IMC the party stopped a band of demons from opening a gate, but not before they had killed off a small town. The Rogue was going to claim "salvage" on the whole place. The general who's forces had exterminated the bulk of the demons found it an amusing concept.

He explained it would require the approval of the Baron of Town, Count Towny, Duke Townland, and King of ThisLand. This particular region is part of an ancient property swap with ThatLand so the King of Thisland has to get permission, or at least notify, the King of Thatland.

Thistown is the largest asset in the Barony of Town and Baron Town would not give it up willingly. It gets even more complicated since the Baron of Town is also the Count of Overthere while the Duke of Townland is a Baron Overethere. Land taken away from the Baron of Town may result in repercussions to the Baron of OverThere (aka Duke Townland). Only the King could overrule the Duke of Townland and since it would also irritate the Count of Overthere he would be highly unlikely to do so.

This ignores the rights of guilds and churches have towards the property belonging to their organizations and members. The nobility are a breeze to deal with compared to Teamsters, Ditchdiggers, and the Priesthood.

Were the party to manage the amazing political tightrope walking required to acquire the township, they would be responsible for providing the dozens of soldiers required to protect such valuable land. Furthermore, every time land changed hands between commoners that taxes were paid and the tax load on property transfer is roughly 60% of its annual revenues. For Town that would be several thousand gold coins, due prior to acquisition.

The owners of Town then can't go selling or giving anything away to raise cash; all sites that have been the place of slaughter and especially fiendish incursion are put under quarantine. Regular ills like filth fever are bad enough but devil chills and even less savory plagues may be birthed in these defiled corpses. Graves will need to be dug, animal carcases burned, wells cleaned out, priests hired to re-sanctify the churches, buildings used as part of the rituals razed, and all this done under the aegis of quarantine.

It will cost tens of thousands of gold coins to get the place back to a functional state and then who would live there? You'd need to entice the churches and guilds to return and likely have to offer tax incentives to tenants, a tax burden the Count is unlikely to let pass, meaning you'd have to cover any losses out of your own pockets.

About this time the Rogue gets on his knees and begs the man to stop before he dies of red tape poisoning. The rest of the party points and laughs. The party was given several letters of commendation, an officer's rank in the militia, a sizable bag of money, and a fairly large, fully furnished house for their troubles.

It's been about four years since then and the party has only stayed in the house one winter but have used their rank and letters of commendation time and time again as a way to bypass the low-level bureacracy they can't stand. Very little says "take me to your leader" like military insignias and paperwork bearing a royal seal.
 

Maldin

First Post
Umbra said:
I like this idea a lot. Simple to keep a running total against a PC's name and glance at it every now and then: They say you're an honest/dishonest man Mr. Umbra!
If you try it out, let me know how it works out for you. While its easy to develop something for your own campaign (since you understand what you want to do with it), tweaking it and writing it up in a clear enough manner so that it can be adapted by anybody else (who can't read your mind, and who likely has a different DM style and different sorts of players then you do) is a whole different kettle of fish.

Denis, aka "Maldin"
=============================
Maldin's Greyhawk http://melkot.com
 

Maldin

First Post
kigmatzomat said:
I generally don't torment my players with bureacracy.
[Deleted excellent example of bureaucratic torture]
About this time the Rogue gets on his knees and begs the man to stop before he dies of red tape poisoning. The rest of the party points and laughs.
Like yourself, I also rarely use this sort of thing, but now and then I like to throw something at my players thats completely different then the usual. That night it was bureacracy. A few sessions later it was walking through a gate into a city 1000 years in the past and just a few days before an apocalypse! (The Greyhawkian "Rain of Colorless Fire/Invoked Devastation").

Denis, aka "Maldin"
==============================
Maldin's Greyhawk http://melkot.com
 

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