Comprehending languages and knowing which languages they are

[Deset Gled]

For example, if I were to write Ore wa genki da, I'm using English letters to write a Japanese sentence - would the spell translate that (and would it make a difference if the caster didn't speak either language already)?

I would play this as if Comprehend Languages acted like Google Translate - it would pick up on all of the obvious and easily translatable words, but it would lose all context (there would be problems with pronouns, verb tenses, etc), and would occasionally be completely lost if a word was spelled too badly or couldn't be accurately described with the new alphabet.

Essentially, any information that was lost in the transliteration is completely gone and cannot be pieced back together by the spell. But enough data may come through for an intelligent person to use context clues to get the gist of what's going on.

Or, kind of like this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bpdeCdUC9r4

 

[Warbringer]

It's not true in this case, however, since Japanese doesn't have a tonal component to it.

Wouldn't that depend whether it was written in kanji or katakana?

 

[Alzrius]

Wouldn't that depend whether it was written in kanji or katakana?

No. There's no tonal component to Japanese.

Now, you can inject tones into it to denote emphasis (e.g. "You did that?" versus "You did that?"), but that doesn't change the meaning of the words, or the sentence, itself.

 

[MarkB]

While we're on the subject, if you used one language's alphabet to write words that were phonetically spelling out writing in another language, would comprehend languages (or any similar type of magic) translate that?

For example, if I were to write Ore wa genki da, I'm using English letters to write a Japanese sentence - would the spell translate that (and would it make a difference if the caster didn't speak either language already)?

English and Japanese are both languages, and the spell lets you comprehend both, so presumably you'd understand the sentence to the same degree that a person fluent in both English and Japanese would understand it.

 

[Ruzak]

Could you translate the script to read aloud phonetically, then again translate your own speech?

 

[Ranes]

Or, kind of like this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bpdeCdUC9r4

Now my hovercraft is full of eels.

 

[Ranes]

On the original question, I would probably assume that the characters can know what language the script is in.

I wouldn't be surprised if most people did. I know I used to. It just struck me a while back that the designers hadn't spelled this out and I wanted to consider what the game might get from a more restrictive interpretation.

On the question of CL and transliterated info, I'd allow it.

I'd never considered it before Alzrius brought it up but I'm sure I can get one little puzzle out of transliteration not working.

If, for some reason, I wanted comprehend languages not to work, I'd remove it from the game's spell list.

I'm sure I would too but, just to be clear, that's not what I want. It just seemed like an opportunity to hinge a minor mystery on - in terms of the spell not revealing the original language. Now, with the transliteration angle, there's potentially more to mine it for.

Edit: and it made me curious as to how others interpreted or applied comprehend languages, so thanks for chipping in.

 

[delericho]

The question is: does the party know the language is Abyssal? From a strict reading of the spell description, the answer has to be that they do not.

That's not something that's come up in my game, nor something I expect ever would. But by a strict reading of the rules, you're right - the identity of the language isn't revealed.

How do you handle this issue?

I'd probably just tell the PCs. If I wanted them to roll for it, then the appropriate Knowledge check is in order, at a fairly low DC. (For prime material languages, it would be Know(local); for planar languages, Know(the planes) or Know(religion); for Draconic it would be Know(arcana), and Druidic would be Know(nature).)

While we're on the subject, if you used one language's alphabet to write words that were phonetically spelling out writing in another language, would comprehend languages (or any similar type of magic) translate that?

I would say yes. It's written in an odd way, but unless it was actually a code (or otherwise deliberately obfuscated) then I would let the spell do its job.

Could you translate the script to read aloud phonetically, then again translate your own speech?

I would say no. Basically, I would take the TV/movie approach, where the PC who casts the spell sees the text gradually re-arrange itself on the document until it reforms into text in his own native language. (Of course, for the illiterate barbarian, a slightly different approach would be needed. He'd probably hear the chiding voice of his tribal shaman reading the text to him, and all the while chiding him for never learning to read. )

 

[WaroftheSendros]

I'd say with the note it can be read, but is transformed into a language the spell caster can read so no ability to recognise which language it is in, however I agree with Ahnehnois that a simple check to reveal the language.

War of the Sendros

 

[Alzrius]

I would say yes. It's written in an odd way, but unless it was actually a code (or otherwise deliberately obfuscated) then I would let the spell do its job.

Well, whomever wrote it took the time to phonetically sound out words in one language using the alphabet of another, so is that not deliberately obfuscated?