Concealment miss chance applies to critical hit confirmation rolls?

[Griego]

If you score a threat on a target that has concealment, does the critical confirmation roll also have a 20% miss chance? I could swear I read something somewhere that said this was not the case, but maybe I'm imagining things.

 

[HoboGod]

If you score a threat on a target that has concealment, does the critical confirmation roll also have a 20% miss chance? I could swear I read something somewhere that said this was not the case, but maybe I'm imagining things.

Well, according to the rules on critical hits, a critical hit is another attack roll with all the same modifiers, and concealment is listed in the combat modifier section. However, I've never known any DM to play it like that, so there might be something I'm missing.

 

[AdmundfortGeographer]

The miss chance from concealment, while it does affect the attack, does not modify the d20 attack roll, however. A critical roll is another d20 attack roll with the same modifiers to the attack roll.

Miss chance is an entirely secondary % roll in addition to a d20 attack roll. Thus critical rolls do not need to apply miss chance rolls because critical rolls only use the modifiers to the attack roll.

That's my interpretation.

 

[Dross]

The miss chance from concealment, while it does affect the attack, does not modify the d20 attack roll, however. A critical roll is another d20 attack roll with the same modifiers to the attack roll.

Miss chance is an entirely secondary % roll in addition to a d20 attack roll. Thus critical rolls do not need to apply miss chance rolls because critical rolls only use the modifiers to the attack roll.

I go this way as well. (PHB glossary for modifier)

Rules Compendium pg 32 under "Effects of Concealment" says 'If the
attacker hits, the defender must make a miss chance percentile roll to avoid being struck.'

By implication: If you are confirming a critical, you have already struck your target.

Also by implication: If you go with needing to roll the % miss chance to stop a critical, then it would seem that you would not only forgo the critical, but actually have missed hitting at all (given the above quote). I don't believe that is the intended outcome of the miss chance.

Neither of these are winners that you don't use the miss %, but merely indicate that you don't.

 

[Vegepygmy]

If you score a threat on a target that has concealment, does the critical confirmation roll also have a 20% miss chance?

No.

 

[Jhaelen]

If you score a threat on a target that has concealment, does the critical confirmation roll also have a 20% miss chance?

Of course not! The miss chance only applies when you determine if the attack hits at all.

 

[Persiflage]

Just to join in with the rare occurence that everybody's agreeing...

Concealment Miss Chance: Concealment gives the SUBJECT of a successful attack a 20% chance that the attacker missed because of the concealment. If the attacker hits, the defender must make a miss chance percentile roll to avoid being struck.

The attacker's to-hit roll is not in any way modified by concealment: concealment gives the defender a chance to "not be hit". Ergo, it would make no sense at all to modify a critical confirmation roll when the defender has clearly already failed their chance to avoid being struck.

Sheer speculation here, but I suspect that the question has arisen because the OP's group does things the same way around that mine tends to: i.e., make the attacker check the miss-chance along with the to-hit in order to save time

 

[jefgorbach]

IRC the attacker rolls To Hit and if successful, then Defender rolls their miss% (if any) to essentially see if it managed to spot and dodge the pending attack.

Presuming the attack is STILL successful and within the critical range then the Attacker rerolls to see if he did bonus damage by striking a weak spot in the defender's armor/vital organ/etc. The defender would NOT reroll his miss% because the attack was already proven successful.

 

[radmod]

Just to join in with the rare occurence that everybody's agreeing...

The world must be coming to an end.

 

[irdeggman]

The world must be coming to an end.

There is a 20% chance of that not happening.