D&D 3E/3.5 Concentration Rules - fix them for a more 3e feel

[Sadrik]

If one were to regard 3.x style buffing as a feature rather than a bug I would drop the Concentration descriptor from all the spells except those that included an action for additional effect (e.g. Moonbeam, Flaming Sphere) or that have a different effect if Concentration is maintained (e.g. Wall of Stone).

Otherwise the other limitations to stacking spells apply (less slots, non-scaling durations).

I think 3.5 concentration is seen as a feature for many people though and 5e concentration is seen as a bug. Hence this thread. I would think that you would want to go somewhere in between, at least from my perspective. Some interesting ideas have been brought out in this thread on how to do it.

I think the most bang for buck is this variant:
Each character concentrates on buffs they have on them. Someone casts invisibility on you or you drink a potion of invisibility, you concentrate on the buff.
In addition to that buff slot, caster's can concentrate on one debuffs or area spell s per the normal concentration rules.
So a wizard might have a wall of force and a blur spell on himself.

 

[BRKNdevil]

really? I actually like it this way. I started with 3.5 and i found while playing mages, that they are way way overpowered and now i find them balanced along with the rest

 

[Sadrik]

Throughout most of the major releases of the game it was not that way though. 1e, 2e, 3, 3.5e, PF, I did not play much of 4e, and now 5e. I have played most of the other editions. 5e is the one that stands out from all of those other editions of the game with regards to buffs. So I am hearing that in all of those other editions buffs and things got it wrong and this new way is the correct way. It alters the game feel (regardless if you call it a bug or a feature). I think that there are some ways you could take a middle-road approach and still limit it without limiting it to one.

 

[jodyjohnson]

I think all ways of handling Concentration whether as a separate mechanic or as a skill are valid. I have a preference just like most people.

My only point was really that I do not regard Mike Mearl's statement about 'breaking the game' while commenting on the delay to the OGL was specifically saying that changing Concentration would break the game.

It does shift the feel of 5e but that really only matters if one regards 'buffing' in previous editions to be a problem.

Carry on.

P.S. I am extremely pro-house ruling so any comments are really just food for thought or alternate takes on a house rule.

 

[Ilbranteloth]

(grappling someone automatically ends concentration).

Why does grappling automatically end concentration? I don't see anyplace that indicates that in the rules. I could be missing something...

Ilbranteloth

 

[Ilbranteloth]

I originally thought of tweaking the concentration rules. I did add a new Wizard Archetype because I missed the generalist wizard and added this ability:

Divided Attention
Starting at 10th level, if you make a successful concentration check you can maintain concentration on one spell while casting a second spell that requires concentration. The DC equals 10 plus the higher level of the two spells.
Maintaining concentration in this manner requires an additional concentration check at the start of each of your turns unless you take no other actions other than maintaining concentration.

I don't think this will really break things. Otherwise the simplest way to bypass the concentration rules is to use scrolls, potions, and other minor magic items. All of these can provide similar effects to many of the spells in question, and don't require concentration to maintain their effects.

Ilbranteloth

 

[Ilbranteloth]

Another option is always to create higher level spells that combine the effects of a couple of lower level spells.

There are also some spells that require concentration, but don't if cast using a higher level spell slot. So an alternate version of divided attention could be a feat like this:

Divided Attention
Prerequisite: Ability to cast 3rd level spells
You have mastered the ability to maintain concentration on more than one spell at a time. In order to concentrate on more than one spell at a time, you must cast each spell using a spell slot 2 levels higher than normal.

The prerequisite is basically because 1st level spells would require 3rd level spell slots. A 1st level spell and a cantrip would require a 2nd and 3rd level spell slot.

Ilbranteloth

 

[Sadrik]

Why does grappling automatically end concentration? I don't see anyplace that indicates that in the rules. I could be missing something...

Grappling causes incapacitation.

Otherwise the simplest way to bypass the concentration rules is to use scrolls, potions, and other minor magic items. All of these can provide similar effects to many of the spells in question, and don't require concentration to maintain their effects.

These require concentration still per page 141 of the DMG.

Another option is always to create higher level spells that combine the effects of a couple of lower level spells.

This is an interesting approach. Make a combo spell with 2 or more spells that activate together. For instance, you might have a wall of force and a moonbeam spell called force beam or something and then you cast it and you concentrate on both effects at once because it is only one spell. Doable.

 

[Ilbranteloth]

Grappling causes incapacitation.

No it doesn't. It says 'the condition ends if the grappler is incapacitated.' If you were incapacitated you couldn't act, in which case you couldn't make grapple or escape checks.

These require concentration still per page 141 of the DMG.

I could have sworn that a number of them specified you don't have to concentrate...

Hmm, house rule, or do I really mind that they can't be combined? Thinking...

Ilbranteloth

 

[Sadrik]

No it doesn't. It says 'the condition ends if the grappler is incapacitated.' If you were incapacitated you couldn't act, in which case you couldn't make grapple or escape checks.

Correct. I must have misread that.

I could have sworn that a number of them specified you don't have to concentrate...

Hmm, house rule, or do I really mind that they can't be combined? Thinking...

I think that is a good house rule. It is a significant boost up in the power of magic items though, so a caster can cast invisibility on the rogue and hold the concentration for it. But if the rogue drinks a potion of invisibility then there is no concentration. I think if you mess with one piece of that equation you should mess with both: caster and magic items.