Condition Track

[Crowley42]

Ok, so I wish to incorporate the condition track from the Star Wars Saga Edition RPG into D&D 4e because it adds some short term detriment to big hits. The main problem I have been having is that the math in 4e is very very specific and I can't figure out a good way to calculate a damage threshold for the life of me. I have been crunching numbers all night with different appraoches including numbers based of HPs, Defenses, and even trying to come up with my own formula thatd work. However the numbers in my own formulas are far to high for the monsters to hit this or far to low that theyd be hitting it all the time. I have been attempting to scale with both lvl (as 4e is fond of doing) and tier in many ways.

While I know I could set the threshold at a set relation to HP I believe this would make it too static. Wizards would have no ability to withstand the side effects of suddenly enduced pain. As such I have decided on making it defense based. I'd like to use fort as a base at the very least.

Looking at various damage capabilities straight Fort score is a bit high for monsters to hit in one swing so I decided "hey what about half!" and this seemed to bring it just low of midline monster hits. So I am now think to myself this late evening perhaps add something based on tier.

So here is my final thought 1/2 Fortitude + 3/Tier = Damage Threshold. This equal -1 on the condition track. So a 18 fort fighter would have a threshhold of 12 while a wizard of the same lvl and fort 11 or so would have a threshhold of 8. So on and so forth, with possible feats so your character uses Ref (rolling with hits vs. resist) or Will (using willpower to ignore pain).

I know this takes testing and such but please if anyone else does something to this effect let me know or if you think this strategy is viable let me know too. I need something longer term than damage that can be 15 minute rested away after battle.

 

[RyvenCedrylle]

mmmm, I still think I should be HP-based. Maybe 1/2 or 1/3 of max HP, depending on your grit level. The math is designed so that fights have about the same enemy-damage to PC HP ratio throughout so if you base your condition track on something less static like Fort., you're going to end up with more condition steps at higher levels than at lower levels. If you must go Fort., though, I think I'd run 1/2 +5 per Tier.

 

[BendBars/LiftGates]

It's a little weird in terms of 4e aesthetics to derive a statistic from Fortitude, which is itself derived from things such as level and Con/Str modifier. So, while this is better than having to say "1/4 level plus 1/2 Con/Str modifier plus 3/tier," it's different than how 4e generally states things.

Plus, you doubly reward people who boost Fort, giving it an edge over other defenses. Getting a bonus to Fortitude also gives you a bonus to your threshold. It is, however, difficult to make an argument that anything should boost the damage threshold that doesn't already boost Fort.

As for the tier-based bonus, I think this is a little odd, since you already give a boost based on level. As you advance in levels, this number is already going up, so you might as well fold those 3 points per tier into the threshold advancement more smoothly.





Also, by proposing this houserule I assume that you approve of this effect, but imposing negative conditions for losing hit points causes something of a "death spiral," where being on the losing end of a fight makes you lose harder. More realistic, to be sure, and so if that makes it more fun for your players then this is a benefit, not a drawback.

 

[Crowley42]

The idea is not a downward spiral of death I assure you, but it is to add some more realism. This is why I am having an issue getting the right numbers. I want "soft" hitting monsters to be less likely to cause damage over threshhold, lurkers/artillery to be more likely, and the in betweeners to have equal chance of doing so or not (preferably slighty more towards not).

My players wholey aprove of the houserule and infact one of them (who I also play a star wars campaign with) said it should be there. As a DM I enact such things as I see fit right now. IE if a cave in occurs and youre under it, failing any way to get out of the way, you will probably have a broken leg.

And I also mean this to be a serperate condition from HP. I see HP as a "how long can I force my self to keep going?" If someone gets healed they are rejuvinated but all there injuries do not simply dissapear. This is especially true with 5 mintute rests healing 1/4 HP.

So, the goal of the condition track is to say "while I may keep going, this twisted ankle and gash in my harm really hurt as a run and swing". But, yeah I need to run more numbers and I really could use some suggested equations. Or if anyone knows how to readily account for average monster damage by level.

And remember the threshhold is not sustained damage is damge in a single hit exceeding threshhold that has lasting effects. As with star wars 3 minor actions will get you to staunch bleeding or get a better stance on that bad ankle!

 

[Crowley42]

OK so here's the deal: From the previous two posts and my own numbers I have devised 4 equations to determine threshhold. These are
A=1/2 Fort + 3/Tier
B= 1/3 HP
C= 1/2 Fort + 5/tier
D= 1/4 Level + 1/2 con/str + 3/tier

Next I took a sample monster from artillery, brute, controller, soldier, skirmisher, and lurker and wrote down damage range on their attacks. These I then found the medians (1/2 way point for non math geeks) and averaged them to find an average Median damage for monsters at level 1, 10, 20, 26ish (not many monsters up in 25+).

After that I used the character builder's base character for representatives for High Med and Low Fortitude characters as well as High and Low HP characters. I then auto leveled them and found lvl 1, 10, 20, 30 threshhold for each representitive in each equation.

Finally I averaged these numbers to gain an average character threshhold for levels 1,10,20,30 using each equation. Matching these to the numbers I have found that equation B works only at level one and after no monster would ever reach threshhold. Equation C would work but it would be a bit leaning toward the players.

Equation A and D were almost identicle with D being more advantageous towards the players.

As a result I will be using A to begin with with my players. I have also decided that there will be NO feats to change the defense used as I wish to keep it tied to HP and player role. But there will be a feat to add 2 or 3 per tier to the threshhold to "buff" this.

So, please let me know how you feel and if anyone wants ill post SOME of the numbers. Thanks!