Consecrated Ground and game Balance

[spasheridan]

All powers have a 5 minute cap on their durations - even if you sustain them.

All zones have a range. All zones must stay in range.

Consecrated ground doesn't have a range listed, it has CLOSE BURST 1.

Either it has a range of 0 or it has an infinite range. Since all other close burst powers have an effective range of 0, I would imagine that CG also has a range of 0. This is the only ruling that a DM has to make about this power.

If you give the power a range of 0, then the power ends as soon as the cleric steps out of the power.

Still - it is an awesome power, good thing it can only be used 1/day

 

[DracoSuave]

All powers have a 5 minute cap on their durations - even if you sustain them.

All zones have a range. All zones must stay in range.

That only applies to moveable zones. Zones that do not have the ability to move are not moveable and are not subject to the 'out of range go boom' mechanic.

 

[willf]

All powers have a 5 minute cap on their durations - even if you sustain them.

Hi Spasheridan -- I've missed that rule. It would help if it were true. In other forum discussions of this power, there has not been general agreement about the 5 minute duration limit. Could you point me to the text that makes that rule, because it would be good to know about it. Thanks

 

[keterys]

PHB p278 Durations*: 'Unless a description says otherwise, you can sustain a
power with a sustained duration for as long as 5 minutes.'

* Shocking location for the rule, I know

 

[willf]

That helps, thanks for looking it up and putting it here. It helps limit the power somewhat, but, unfortunately, not enough.

It is indeed a bad location for the rule, because, in the section entitled "Sustained durations", p. 278, which is highlighted with a colored background, is the following sentence:

"An effect that has a 'sustain standard,' a 'sustain move,' or a 'sustain minor' duration lasts as long as you sustain it."
Only later, in plain text and apparently unrelated, is the contradictory rule you quoted.

In any event, the 5-minute duration limit appears to save only the encounters that are not in a dungeon. It appears that any encounters that are in a dungeon can be strung together to make the power last through multiple encounters. And, without a fix or a rule change, PC's that don't string encounters together are hurting themselves. Even if I fix the power myself, by saying PC's can't carry it to a nearby encounter, we're still left with an uncomfortable situation in which a cleric can turn one encounter per day into an encounter that has absolutely no doubt about the outcome, that encourages boring tactics, and that requires no use of healing surges, daily powers, or any other resources. That's not the way I want to spend 1/3 of my session. I will fix this power in my games; I would have liked to find a fix that was thought out by Wizards, but I'll have to try one myself. Actually, I'll probably leave it up the party to decide, because I don't think any of us want the alternative.​

 

[fba827]

if you're in a close-quarter fight (be it room, dungeon, of sacred grotto), everyone gets in on the consecrated ground. but if you're in a large open area (say crossing an open plain or forest) for your encounter scene, chances are only a couple people will be close enough to be in the zone at any given time.

so your group's game typical encounter size does factor in to the utility of this power.

 

[DracoSuave]

In any event, the 5-minute duration limit appears to save only the encounters that are not in a dungeon. It appears that any encounters that are in a dungeon can be strung together to make the power last through multiple encounters. And, without a fix or a rule change, PC's that don't string encounters together are hurting themselves.[/LEFT]

Well, if the party doesn't want their encounter powers back, which is, at Consecrated Ground's level, 2 encounter powers -minimum- per player, and only want to heal up to bloodied going into their next encounter, and are willing to weakly, at half hitpoints, go to other locations and try to lure monsters into their traps... and hope they -don't- get killed in the process...

...they are welcome to try!

In practice, however, this proves to be tossing in a lot more difficulty to -maybe- get a non-guaranteed benefit.

 

[willf]

Yes, I agree with you that the way the power is intended to work, this would not be a problem. You are right, because a large party would have to be spread out, and the other party members would not be able to rest and heal or recharge their encounter powers. And, if it worked out that way, I might let the power be as is. But, I believe it works out differently. It is possible I am missing something, and I hope I am, but reading other posters in various forums leads me to believe I am not. That's why I am writing here, to find out if I am missing something.

If a cleric is standing on the consecrated ground (oddly named sanctified ground in the power itself), then the cleric effectively cannot die. As long as a monster cannot hit the cleric for ~3/4 of the cleric's HP in one round, then at the beginning of the cleric's turn the cleric returns to 0, then heals to ~1/4 HP, uses a minor to sustain, stands, and attacks. Meanwhile, the monsters take damage each turn from the ground, or from an occasional hit from the cleric. There is no need to ever spend surges, no need to ever use encounter powers, and no need to ever use any other resource. Now, if you are an ally of the cleric, you would be unwise to not run over to the ground yourself, and stand there. You become effectively invincible as well, so you should not waste healing surges, encounter powers, or any other resource. As long as the party is less than 10 members, then everyone stands there just fine. Only very special monsters (those with reliable pull powers, massive damage, reliable stun powers) even have a chance. But that chance is minimal, because the other PC's, who are mostly just standing there, can be ready to undo any pulls or damage if necessary. Thus, at the end of this encounter, all PCs are at a little over bloodied value in HP and at full powers and resources, which is a fine position to be in. This continues until the 5 minutes are up, at which point, the PCs finish at a little over bloodied value in HP and at full powers and resources.

This is what I mean when I say this power makes at least one encounter per day into an encounter with no doubt about the outcome, one that encourages boring tactics, and that costs no resources.

I thought about it while going to sleep last night, and I'm probably going to suggest the OP's and others' solution to my party: the power works like regeneration, which means it doesn't heal when the PC is dying. With this change, the power will probably still contend for best power at 5th level, but it will operate the way it was intended, as others described above. I'll see what my party says.

Thanks for your thoughts about this power.

 

[keterys]

The power works a lot better, frankly, if you either
A) make it regeneration equal to that value (so it doesn't work below 0 hp)
B) make it heal allies only

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

Heh, I've been in a few long and involved discussions of this power on other boards. The moveability question really isn't clearly answerable. The power has no range and thus either Keterys is correct and that means it cannot be out of range, or the effective range of a close burst is 0. Note that if it is zero that does not mean it is impossible to move the zone. Movable zones only end if the caster is out of range at the end of his turn. So by the zero range interpretation the cleric could move the zone 3 squares, and then move 3 squares himself to the origin square using his standard action. Its cumbersome, but given the extreme utility of this power it doesn't seem out of line.

The whole question of whether or not a dying creature is bloodied or not is hard to answer as well. By RAW clearly it is, but there are a number of other places in the rules where things seem to have been written without considering that.

Indeed your average heroic level encounter is likely going to be pretty well fixed if the cleric unleashes this power, but it certainly isn't absolutely guaranteed and tougher encounters are still going to give the party problems. Nor is CG the only way to get an effect like this. A similar sort of effect can be obtained using the level 1 item Battle Standard of Healing. It isn't quite as good, but it is also usable every single combat. I've found both to be handy, but in a tough and well designed encounter it isn't a win button.

Overall though I can't see any reason not to limit it to the cleric's allies or else reclassify it as regeneration. Its still probably the best level 5 daily and certainly a good power.