D&D 3E/3.5 Consultations re 3.5 --> 4E Druid/Wizard Conversion?

[corncob]

A Half-elf Druid/Wizard is easy to translate into 4E, and unlike its 3E counterpart will be more effective than two midget stuck together. There's no need to take half-measures trying to capture the "essence" of the character, at least in this case. Observe:

[sblock]====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&D Character Builder ======
Drew, level 10
Half-Elf, Wizard|Druid
Hybrid Druid: Hybrid Druid Reflex
Hybrid Talent: Arcane Implement Mastery
Arcane Implement Mastery: Staff of Defense

FINAL ABILITY SCORES
Str 8, Con 15, Dex 11, Int 18, Wis 18, Cha 12.

STARTING ABILITY SCORES
Str 8, Con 13, Dex 11, Int 16, Wis 16, Cha 10.


AC: 25 Fort: 20 Reflex: 23 Will: 23
HP: 62 Surges: 8 Surge Value: 15

TRAINED SKILLS
Heal +14, Insight +16, Arcana +14, Nature +14

UNTRAINED SKILLS
Acrobatics +5, Bluff +6, Diplomacy +8, Dungeoneering +9, Endurance +7, History +9, Intimidate +6, Perception +9, Religion +9, Stealth +5, Streetwise +6, Thievery +5, Athletics +4

FEATS
Level 1: Armor Proficiency (Leather)
Level 2: Focused Expertise (Quarterstaff)
Level 4: Hybrid Talent
Level 6: Ritual Caster
Level 8: Spirit Talker
Level 10: Arcane Familiar

POWERS
Dilettante: Magic Weapon
Hybrid Druid at-will 1: Pounce
Hybrid Wizard at-will 1: Thunderwave
Spirit Talker: Spirit's Shield
Hybrid encounter 1: Chill Strike
Hybrid daily 1: Sleep
Hybrid utility 2: Barkskin
Hybrid encounter 3: Predator's Flurry
Hybrid daily 5: Summon Guardian Drake
Hybrid utility 6: Wizard's Escape
Hybrid encounter 7: Fire Shroud
Hybrid daily 9: Visions of Ruin
Hybrid utility 10: Mass Resistance

ITEMS
Defensive Staff +2, Amulet of Protection +2, Summoned Leather Armor +2, Adventurer's Kit, Ritual Book[/sblock]

 

[Schwabio]

Fey Charging Barbarian

And even more of a stretch but is the martial version of my previous post.


Again Ritual Caster + skills= 3.5's I can do anything with wizard and druid magic

This guy only gets 2.3 basic melee attacks per round=).
charge -> Howling Strike
on fey step-> possibly Howling Strike as you are still charging
Aegis Assault-> this is the .3 as it only sometimes goes off melee basic
teleporting every round ensures this will go off more on this build than most, as your marked opponent will be on other side of tank from you
minor -> mark new opponent


[sblock]
====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&D Character Builder ======
Smote me a Kipper, level 12
Eladrin, Fighter|Barbarian, Ghost Blade
Background: Born Under a Bad Sign

FINAL ABILITY SCORES
Str 21, Con 11, Dex 17, Int 16, Wis 11, Cha 9.

STARTING ABILITY SCORES
Str 18, Con 10, Dex 14, Int 11, Wis 10, Cha 8.


AC: 25 Fort: 27 Reflex: 22 Will: 20
HP: 102 Surges: 8 Surge Value: 25

TRAINED SKILLS
Religion +14, Athletics +15, Acrobatics +13, Nature +11, Arcana +16

UNTRAINED SKILLS
Bluff +5, Diplomacy +5, Dungeoneering +6, Endurance +5, Heal +6, History +11, Insight +6, Intimidate +5, Perception +6, Stealth +8, Streetwise +5, Thievery +8

FEATS
Level 1: Blade Initiate
Level 2: Eladrin Swordmage Advance
Level 4: Weapon Proficiency (Greatspear)
Level 6: Ritual Caster
Level 8: Weapon Focus (Spear)
Level 10: Weapon Expertise (Spear)
Level 11: Fey Charge
Level 12: Surprising Charge

POWERS
Hybrid Barbarian at-will 1: Howling Strike
Hybrid Fighter at-will 1: Crushing Surge
Hybrid encounter 1: Avalanche Strike
Hybrid daily 1: Rage Drake's Frenzy
Hybrid utility 2: Pass Forward
Hybrid encounter 3: Sweeping Blow
Hybrid daily 5: Bedeviling Assault
Hybrid utility 6: Laugh it Off
Hybrid encounter 7: Curtain of Steel
Hybrid daily 9: Oak Hammer Rage
Hybrid utility 10: Strength From Pain

ITEMS
Amulet of Protection +3, Adventurer's Kit, Rageblood Earthhide Armor +3, Horned Helm (heroic tier), Bracers of Mighty Striking (heroic tier), Salve of Power (heroic tier), Boots of Adept Charging (heroic tier), Bloodclaw Greatspear +3, Battle Standard of Might (heroic tier)
====== Copy to Clipboard and Press the Import Button on the Summary Tab ======[/sblock]

 

[Schwabio]

I liked Corncob's build except for WildShape.


I would stay away from the WildShape, as only your beast form powers work in it. And your beast form powers do not work in bipedal form.
Course then you can turn into and animal and wander around all day, and thats kinda cool from a story perspective.


Big Thundery Blood Pulse then push them around with Thunderwave. Also rest of party can cause extra damage if they move targets.

Magic Weapon is excellent at-will buff, great default action

Direwolf as mount again provides reliable Combat Advantage.

Orbs of inevitable continuance: great way to extend status effect spells by a round, makes them much more useful, you can use cheap ones even at higher levels for their daily power

[sblock]

====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&D Character Builder ======
Blunder, level 12
Half-Elf, Druid|Wizard, Blood Mage
Hybrid Druid: Hybrid Druid Reflex
Hybrid Talent: Arcane Implement Mastery
Arcane Implement Mastery: Orb of Imposition
Arcane Admixture Damage Type: Arcane Admixture Thunder
Arcane Admixture Power: Blood Pulse
Background: Born Under a Bad Sign

FINAL ABILITY SCORES
Str 9, Con 14, Dex 11, Int 20, Wis 19, Cha 13.

STARTING ABILITY SCORES
Str 8, Con 11, Dex 10, Int 17, Wis 16, Cha 10.


AC: 24 Fort: 21 Reflex: 25 Will: 24
HP: 75 Surges: 8 Surge Value: 18

TRAINED SKILLS
Dungeoneering +15, Arcana +16, Nature +15

UNTRAINED SKILLS
Acrobatics +6, Bluff +7, Diplomacy +9, Endurance +8, Heal +10, History +11, Insight +12, Intimidate +7, Perception +10, Religion +11, Stealth +6, Streetwise +7, Thievery +6, Athletics +5

FEATS
Level 1: Hybrid Talent
Level 2: Enlarge Spell
Level 4: Implement Expertise (staff)
Level 6: Ritual Caster
Level 8: White Lotus Riposte
Level 10: Mounted Combat
Level 11: Arcane Admixture
Level 12: Resounding Thunder

POWERS
Dilettante: Magic Weapon
Hybrid Druid at-will 1: Grasping Tide
Hybrid Wizard at-will 1: Thunderwave
Hybrid encounter 1: Twisting Vines
Hybrid daily 1: Summon Fierce Boar
Hybrid utility 2: Shield
Hybrid encounter 3: Color Spray
Hybrid daily 5: Visions of Avarice
Hybrid utility 6: Camouflage Cloak
Hybrid encounter 7: Twist of Space
Hybrid daily 9: Summon Giant Crocodile
Hybrid utility 10: Repelling Shield

ITEMS
Enduring Spirit Vestments Cloth Armor (Basic Clothing) +3, Amulet of Protection +3, Cloth Armor (Basic Clothing), Adventurer's Kit, Implement, Orb, Orb of Inevitable Continuance +1 (4), Orb of Inescapable Consequences +3, Dire Wolf, Impenetrable Barding (heroic tier), Zephyr Horseshoes (heroic tier), Saddle of Strength (heroic tier)
====== Copy to Clipboard and Press the Import Button on the Summary Tab ======[/sblock]
​

 

[Saeviomagy]

Put me solidly in the "make a druid and pick appropriate powers". A 4e druid is designed to fill the exact same niche that a wizard does, and therefore has very similar powers (in terms of mechanics).

Pick up plenty of rituals, reflavour a spell here and there and bob is your uncle.

 

[Turtlejay]

A Half-elf Druid/Wizard is easy to translate into 4E, and unlike its 3E counterpart will be more effective than two midget stuck together. There's no need to take half-measures trying to capture the "essence" of the character, at least in this case. Observe:

[sblock]====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&D Character Builder ======
Drew, level 10
Half-Elf, Wizard|Druid
Hybrid Druid: Hybrid Druid Reflex
Hybrid Talent: Arcane Implement Mastery
Arcane Implement Mastery: Staff of Defense

FINAL ABILITY SCORES
Str 8, Con 15, Dex 11, Int 18, Wis 18, Cha 12.

STARTING ABILITY SCORES
Str 8, Con 13, Dex 11, Int 16, Wis 16, Cha 10.


AC: 25 Fort: 20 Reflex: 23 Will: 23
HP: 62 Surges: 8 Surge Value: 15

TRAINED SKILLS
Heal +14, Insight +16, Arcana +14, Nature +14

UNTRAINED SKILLS
Acrobatics +5, Bluff +6, Diplomacy +8, Dungeoneering +9, Endurance +7, History +9, Intimidate +6, Perception +9, Religion +9, Stealth +5, Streetwise +6, Thievery +5, Athletics +4

FEATS
Level 1: Armor Proficiency (Leather)
Level 2: Focused Expertise (Quarterstaff)
Level 4: Hybrid Talent
Level 6: Ritual Caster
Level 8: Spirit Talker
Level 10: Arcane Familiar

POWERS
Dilettante: Magic Weapon
Hybrid Druid at-will 1: Pounce
Hybrid Wizard at-will 1: Thunderwave
Spirit Talker: Spirit's Shield
Hybrid encounter 1: Chill Strike
Hybrid daily 1: Sleep
Hybrid utility 2: Barkskin
Hybrid encounter 3: Predator's Flurry
Hybrid daily 5: Summon Guardian Drake
Hybrid utility 6: Wizard's Escape
Hybrid encounter 7: Fire Shroud
Hybrid daily 9: Visions of Ruin
Hybrid utility 10: Mass Resistance

ITEMS
Defensive Staff +2, Amulet of Protection +2, Summoned Leather Armor +2, Adventurer's Kit, Ritual Book[/sblock]

Not only did "two midgets stuck together" almost make me blow milk from my nose, this build seemed the most. . .faithful to the original. Not only will you have buffs and blasts (mentioned in the original post), but he made sure you had a familiar and an animal companion. A ghosty one.

To be honest though, straight druid (as pointed out) will almost be as good, if you take a few feats and train your skills right. Maybe dip a toe into wizard or bard for some flavor (and to qualify to cast bardic rituals), but i'm not sure there is a need.

Jay

 

[sskoog]

Thanks, all, for your diverse qualitative *and* quantitative inputs; wanted to lay low for a few days to collect data (and I'm still very interested in collecting more, so keep 'em coming) before synthesizing.

I've busily been following these suggestions, and have attempted five or six 4E char-conversions (almost to the point where I'm sick of doing char-gen for a little while). Have learned a few interesting lessons along the way; they read like blanket generalizations, which I don't intend, but take the gist/spirit for what it's worth.

-- I [the player] am loath to part with Wizard spellbook flexibility
-- Traditional [PHB1] multiclassing quickly becomes feat-consumptive
-- Wild Shape requires a heavy investment before becoming "good"
(here, of course, I mean "good" in the combat/mechanics sense)
-- Hybrid combos, though subtler, seem to offer more bang-for-buck
(perhaps I really mean to say "Hybrids are the most 3E-like" ??)
-- Druid may be one of those classes ill-suited to combination
(barring obvious overlaps like Druid-Ranger, Druid-Shaman, etc.)

And my handful of Druid/Wizard-flavored combinations tried to date:
[Note... GM has recently announced level 12 for our conversions]

Druid Multiclass into Wizard (3 Wiz powers)

Though combat-sufficient in his own right, this may qualify as the "weakest" build; the char is single-dimensional and incurs a great deal of "feat opportunity cost" to dabble in wizardly stuff. I am compelled to agree with other posters that pure-Druid would be as good or better here.

Wizard Multiclass into Druid (3 Druid powers)

Pleasing flavor-wise (Wild Shape and flight are gained here), but possibly shares the pure-Wizard's combat liability (nickel and dime opponent, fail to make an appreciable dent, opponent end-runs or vanquishes defender(s), then pounds Wizard into hamburger). Feat opportunity-cost is high, as noted above. This combination might be slightly preferable to the Druid-multiclassing-into-Wizard, for sheer merit of the "getaway" [evade/escape] options. All things considered, I find this mix superior to pure-Wizard.

Druid-Wizard Hybrid (without Paragon Path)

Very rich in terms of flavor and versatility. This build will not be able to hold its own as a 100% melee-spellcaster or wildshaper, but seems able to survive a few rounds [Predator's Flurry, Latch On, Armor of Wild, etc.]. This build's Wizard powers are a heavy blend of defensive and blast-at-20-range, with a couple of summons thrown in for taste. A possible shortcoming is "loner" configuration (i.e., not as 4E group-effective in terms of buffs, cooperative slides/opportunities, etc.). This mix is also superior to pure-Wizard, but pure-Druid could almost certainly outfight it.

Druid-Wizard Hybrid (Paragon Path = Blood Mage)

Thematically very similar to previous (non-Paragon) Hybrid above. Loses some higher-level Druid beast-form combat efficacy so as to gain the early Blood Mage powers (innates, Blood Pulse, Soul Burn, etc.). Definitely more damage-capable, but verges toward a 'Glass Cannon' build (there's very little Druid in this mixture). Still a loner.

Druid-Invoker Hybrid (without Paragon Path)

Probably more combat-effective (lots of daze, immobilize, radiant + thunder), and probably more effective with a group, but still feels somewhat one-dimensional. The powers accrued by this build (bow down or take damage, look upon my face and despair, etc.) give me a strong being-who-is-losing-his-humanity vibe, which I like... but perhaps not at the cost of the more scholarly wizardly stuff. (Rituals help to partially seal this gap.) Beast-form feels almost like a forced fit here, and, bluntly, there are so many heavy-hitter Invoker powers that each Druid level feels like a lost opportunity.

Druid-Invoker Hybrid (Paragon Path = Blightspeaker)

As above; takes the losing-humanity angle still further with I-steal-your-life, I-suffuse-the-battlefield-with-necrotic-energy, etc. Some higher-level beastform effectiveness is lost here (so as to qualify for the Paragon powers), but interestingly it doesn't seem to hamper the build in this particular case... this may hint at pure-Invoker trumping Druid-Invoker, stat synergies notwithstanding.

========================================

I'm sure there are other combinations (Shaman, Warden) I haven't considered...?

 

[LightPhoenix]

I think one of the reasons you're having problems with the class design is because you're trying to be extremely versatile. Druids in 3E used to be the kings of versatility, however in 4E that versatility has been divided between three different classes (Druid, Warden, Shaman). Having a character that will in any way effectively buff/debuff, melee wildshape, summon, and blast is non-existent in 4E. My advice would be to choose two and start from there.

If you want buff/debuff, you'll have to use a Leader. My suggestion would be Bard, but any leader will do. In full disclosure, I'm not a fan of the Shaman, but it may fit your idea better.

Melee wild-shaping is IMO best represented by the Warden (a defender). However, if you want to maintain your style, Druid is the better fit. However, you will never be that great in melee, even if the Druid encourages it a little more than other controllers.

There are a number of choices for summoning - Wizard, Artificer, and Druid all provide summoning powers.

Druid by itself is good for blasting, however any controller here will do.

My suggestions would be to go with summoning and blasting, using either a pure Druid or a Druid/Wizard hybrid. The two overlap well enough in those areas so as to be decent.

 

[Garthanos]

-- Hybrid combos, though subtler, seem to offer more bang-for-buck

Love this thread... its a very good rp oriented character conversion run.

Hybrid rules do seem to have lots of flavor bang for your buck (with just a dabble of multiclass just to get another trained skill and arcane qualification for a familiar for instance). Hybrids do in most cases feel slightly under-optimal... though not anything as bad as most 3e style ... squished together midgets from what I heard there were some evil ways to do the squishing that made them taller than everyone else.

I think I would try the head on run design for the character as corncob suggested... in part because my group is not really that heavily in to optimizing anyway.