Converting Al-Qadim creatures

[Cleon]

Cleon's reluctance for Con drain makes me think we could use a Con reduction in a different way...

Instead of a Con drain for each granted ability, perhaps the Vizier's Turban imposes a -1 penalty on the Con score for each spell level. (It might bear a resemblance to the Quintessential Wizard feat that lets a wizard temporarily burn Con points to boost their spells.) The Spell Resistance cost would be a one-for-one cost.

Cleon's point would still stand... a -5 penalty to Con (much less any ability score) might cause any player to wince, but a bonus spell and Spell Resistance seems worth it.

Alternatively, we could maintain the hit point drain but apply it in a similar fashion... the wearer/host would suffer a unique -2 per spell level penalty to his total hit point score.

I'd like that approach better. Certainly the penalty should be something that can't be removed as long as the Turban is worn, like the negative level some magic items impose on inappropriate users.

A -5 Con penalty might still be too much. That's -2 or possibly -3 hit points/level, plus the same penalty to Fort saves and Concentration skill penalties. That's a lot worse than the original's -1 hp/level. The worst (10 hp) cost would be passed at 4th-5th level. (-3 hp/level at 4th level or -2 hp/level at 5th).

So, how about going for a straight HP reduction/penalty like the original?

 

[Number 6]

I'd like that approach better. Certainly the penalty should be something that can't be removed as long as the Turban is worn, like the negative level some magic items impose on inappropriate users.

...So, how about going for a straight HP reduction/penalty like the original?

Sure... keeps it consistent.
Perhaps the hit point penalty lasts as long as the Turban is worn and for 24 hours after it is taken off.

 

[Cleon]

Sure... keeps it consistent.
Perhaps the hit point penalty lasts as long as the Turban is worn and for 24 hours after it is taken off.

I'd rather it be longer than that. Say, the hit point reduction lasts as long as the turban is "alive" (in quotes because I'm still thinking it might be a Construct), until a week or month after the Turban is worn, or maybe they must make a difficult Will save to break the turban-bond.

Would we keep the original's HP = HP sacrificed by the mage? I'm thinking we might be better off giving it its own HD. Maybe with a familiar-like "effective HD equals master" ability, or adding positive levels equal to the sacrificed HP (maximum 10)?

Also, we should probably drop the "permanent HP loss" element of the creature, but what do we do about healing. We might as well keep its ability to heal its host with its own HP, but how does it heal its own HPs? Indeed, can it heal itself. If we decide on it being a Construct, maybe its master has to take HP of damage to heal its wounds?

 

[freyar]

I could go for aberration. I don't like construct.

"Anti-toughness" hp loss is fine if Shade agrees. Regaining the hp after a Will save works for me.

Working HD like familiars makes sense.

 

[Cleon]

I could go for aberration. I don't like construct.

How about Native Outsider, since there are rumours they were once Genies?

I might accept Aberration, but I definitely don't like the earlier suggestion of Magical Beast.

"Anti-toughness" hp loss is fine if Shade agrees. Regaining the hp after a Will save works for me.

Working HD like familiars makes sense.

Shall we rough out a SQ then?

Does the turban "replace" a familiar?

 

[freyar]

Don't like Outsider much. "The theory which has gained the most acceptance is that the creatures were originally some sort of familiar." actually suggests Magical Beast, which you don't like. I think Aberration might be all we can agree on.

I'd make it an Improved Familiar, though maybe at a lower level than you'd think due to the penalties.

 

[Cleon]

Don't like Outsider much. "The theory which has gained the most acceptance is that the creatures were originally some sort of familiar." actually suggests Magical Beast, which you don't like. I think Aberration might be all we can agree on.

Aberration it is then.

I'd make it an Improved Familiar, though maybe at a lower level than you'd think due to the penalties.

Have to think about that.

Not sure I like the idea of it requiring a feat to acquire.

 

[freyar]

Yeah, I guess with the symbiosis and penalties, it might not need to be a familiar per se, either.

 

[Cleon]

Yeah, I guess with the symbiosis and penalties, it might not need to be a familiar per se, either.

So, are we allowing an arcane caster to have a vizier's turban and a familiar then?

 

[Shade]

Aberration seems the best fit.

So, are we allowing an arcane caster to have a vizier's turban and a familiar then?

I have no objections.

I suppose the hp loss could work, although I'd favor this approach from other symbionts (replacing Int with Con in the example below):

Mind Feeding (Su): A cerebral hood survives by consuming its host's mental energy. This deals 1 point of Intelligence damage each day the hood remains attached. Ordinarily, the host regains 1 point of lost Intelligence each night, just before the cerebral hood drains a new point, keeping the host at an equilibrium point of -1 to its Intelligence. When the cerebral hood uses its mind blast, however, it deals extra Intelligence damage, so overuse of that special attack can eventually destroy the host's mind.

Still, if the majority prefers hp loss, I'll deal with it.