Converting Creatures from Other Campaign Settings

[freyar]

Dissipations work well.

Sweep is basically the same as a dragon's tail sweep, and I'd just modify that. I'd also drop the movement cost and just make it part of the attack action, as usual. Crush is also a lot like the dragon's, but it's easier to escape (and more complicated). I'm again inclined to use a slightly modified dragon crush. What do you think about these?

Trample does seem like a good fit. I'd go along with that.

 

[Cleon]

Dissipations work well.

Glad you approve, but, just to clarify on the final question in my earlier post, do you prefer "a spiritual copy will dissipate if the juggernaut equips a regular item in its place" or "a spiritual copy will vanish if the juggernaut equips a regular item in its place"?

Sweep is basically the same as a dragon's tail sweep, and I'd just modify that. I'd also drop the movement cost and just make it part of the attack action, as usual. Crush is also a lot like the dragon's, but it's easier to escape (and more complicated). I'm again inclined to use a slightly modified dragon crush. What do you think about these?

I agree that a modified Tail Sweep can do for the Sweep attack, but the Juggernaut's Crush is quite different from the True Dragon's version.

A draconic Crush involves the dragon just lying on every enemy in its space and squashing them under its weight, the AD&D Guardian Juggernaut's "crush" is actually more of a "stomp" attack that involves it repeatedly stamping upon a single opponent as a full-round attack. It also the secondary effects of either scattering the opponent like a grenade-like missile or trapping them underfoot.

Trample does seem like a good fit. I'd go along with that.

We seem to be agreed on that at least!

 

[freyar]

The spiritual copy will "dissipate." Sorry if that wasn't clear!

OK, good we're agreed on the tail sweep. That would give us
Sweep (Ex): This special attack allows a guardian juggernaut to sweep its arms from side to side as a standard action. The sweep affects a half-circle with a radius of the juggernaut's reach, extending from an intersection on the edge of the juggernaut's space in any direction. Creatures within the swept area are affected if they are two[?] or more size categories smaller than the juggernaut. A sweep automatically deals twice the juggernaut's base slam damage (or claw damage, if the juggernaut has no slam attacks) plus 1-1/2 times the juggernaut’s Strength bonus (round down). Affected creatures can attempt Reflex saves to take half damage (the save DC is Strength-based).
How does that look?

Mmmph. I was attempting to simplify the stomp mechanism to the dragon's Crush attack. I'd particularly like to get rid of the grenade-like scattering, since that's pretty abnormal unless something like a teleportation effect is involved.

 

[Cleon]

The spiritual copy will "dissipate." Sorry if that wasn't clear!

OK, good we're agreed on the tail sweep. That would give us

Sweep (Ex): This special attack allows a guardian juggernaut to sweep its arms from side to side as a standard action. The sweep affects a half-circle with a radius of the juggernaut's reach, extending from an intersection on the edge of the juggernaut's space in any direction. Creatures within the swept area are affected if they are two[?] or more size categories smaller than the juggernaut. A sweep automatically deals twice the juggernaut's base slam damage (or claw damage, if the juggernaut has no slam attacks) plus 1-1/2 times the juggernaut’s Strength bonus (round down). Affected creatures can attempt Reflex saves to take half damage (the save DC is Strength-based).
How does that look?

Fine, except that I'd like to add a note that some guardians can use other limbs to make sweep attacks. e.g.:

Sweep (Ex): This special attack allows a guardian juggernaut to sweep its arms* from side to side as a standard action. * SNIP *

*A guardian juggernaut with a non-standard anatomy can use other limbs, such as wings or a tail, to make a sweep attack.

Mmmph. I was attempting to simplify the stomp mechanism to the dragon's Crush attack. I'd particularly like to get rid of the grenade-like scattering, since that's pretty abnormal unless something like a teleportation effect is involved.

Hmm... I like the idea of the juggernaut punting a stomped victim through the air, but agree the grenade-like scattering's problematic.

How about we allow the Juggernaut to opt kick the victim away in an unspecified direction, like a creature with Snatch can fling a snatched victim aside?

The creature can drop a creature it has snatched as a free action or use a standard action to fling it aside. A flung creature travels 1d6 × 10 feet, and takes 1d6 points of damage per 10 feet traveled. If the creature flings a snatched opponent while flying, the opponent takes this amount or falling damage, whichever is greater.

EDIT: Maybe have the stomp victim make a Reflex save, and if they fail the Guardian can either try to kick them away (as in the quote above) or attempt to pin them underfoot for automatic continuous "grind beneath its heel" damage.

 

[freyar]

I'm fine with that change to Sweep. Go ahead and put it in and update away!

I like your suggestion for Stomp. Something like a combination of Crush and Snatch would work. Something like this?
Stomp (Ex): A Huge(?) or larger guardian juggernaut can stomp opponents three(?) or more size categories smaller than itself. The juggernaut attempts to move into its opponent's space; if the victim fails a Reflex save, the juggernaut may either pin or kick the opponent. If the victim succeeds at the Reflex save, the stomp attack fails, the juggernaut's movement ends next to the opponent's space, and the opponent may make an attack of opportunity against the juggernaut.

If the juggernaut pins its opponent, the victim automatically taking XXXX bludgeoning damage during the next round unless the juggernaut moves off them. If the juggernaut chooses to maintain the pin, treat it as a normal grapple attack. Pinned opponents take damage from the stomp each round if they don’t escape.

If the juggernaut kicks the opponent, the victim travels 1d6 × 10 feet, and takes 1d6 points of damage per 10 feet traveled plus XXXX bludgeoning damage from the kick.



By the way, Happy Christmas!

 

[Cleon]

I'm fine with that change to Sweep. Go ahead and put it in and update away!

Updating the Guardian Juggernaut Working Draft.

I like your suggestion for Stomp. Something like a combination of Crush and Snatch would work. Something like this?
Stomp (Ex): A Huge(?) or larger guardian juggernaut can stomp opponents three(?) or more size categories smaller than itself. The juggernaut attempts to move into its opponent's space; if the victim fails a Reflex save, the juggernaut may either pin or kick the opponent. If the victim succeeds at the Reflex save, the stomp attack fails, the juggernaut's movement ends next to the opponent's space, and the opponent may make an attack of opportunity against the juggernaut.

If the juggernaut pins its opponent, the victim automatically taking XXXX bludgeoning damage during the next round unless the juggernaut moves off them. If the juggernaut chooses to maintain the pin, treat it as a normal grapple attack. Pinned opponents take damage from the stomp each round if they don’t escape.

If the juggernaut kicks the opponent, the victim travels 1d6 × 10 feet, and takes 1d6 points of damage per 10 feet traveled plus XXXX bludgeoning damage from the kick.

I think the Stomp attack needs to do automatic initial damage with a Reflex save-for-half rather than only do damage on a failed Reflex save.

I was thinking the Pin/Kick special attack might involve a second Reflex save or possible a grapple check to determine whether it succeeds.

Finally, three size categories seems a bit too large a gap - it means a Huge juggernaut would be unable to Stomp a Medium sized creature! I was thinking two categories would be more appropriate.

By the way, Happy Christmas!

Ditto!

 

[freyar]

Hmmm, something like the following?
Stomp (Ex): A Huge or larger guardian juggernaut can stomp opponents two or more size categories smaller than itself. The juggernaut attempts to move into its opponent's space; if the victim fails a Reflex save, the victim takes XXX bludgeoning damage and the juggernaut may either pin or kick the opponent. If the victim succeeds at the Reflex save, the victim takes half damage, the juggernaut's movement ends next to the opponent's space, and the opponent may make an attack of opportunity against the juggernaut.

If the juggernaut pins its opponent, the victim automatically taking XXXX bludgeoning damage during the next round unless the juggernaut moves off them. If the juggernaut chooses to maintain the pin, treat it as a normal grapple attack. Pinned opponents take damage from the stomp each round if they don’t escape.

If the juggernaut kicks the opponent, the victim travels 1d6 × 10 feet, and takes 1d6 points of damage per 10 feet traveled plus XXXX bludgeoning damage from the kick.


EDIT: a few days late, but Happy New Year, too!

 

[Cleon]

Hmmm, something like the following?
Stomp (Ex): A Huge or larger guardian juggernaut can stomp opponents two or more size categories smaller than itself. The juggernaut attempts to move into its opponent's space; if the victim fails a Reflex save, the victim takes XXX bludgeoning damage and the juggernaut may either pin or kick the opponent. If the victim succeeds at the Reflex save, the victim takes half damage, the juggernaut's movement ends next to the opponent's space, and the opponent may make an attack of opportunity against the juggernaut.

If the juggernaut pins its opponent, the victim automatically taking XXXX bludgeoning damage during the next round unless the juggernaut moves off them. If the juggernaut chooses to maintain the pin, treat it as a normal grapple attack. Pinned opponents take damage from the stomp each round if they don’t escape.

If the juggernaut kicks the opponent, the victim travels 1d6 × 10 feet, and takes 1d6 points of damage per 10 feet traveled plus XXXX bludgeoning damage from the kick.


EDIT: a few days late, but Happy New Year, too!

The basics of that'll work fine. For the XXX damage we could add a column to the Guardian Juggernaut Natural Attack Table.

We also need to say what action it involves - the original took a "full round".

Oh, any shouldn't we say how far the juggernaut can move before making its Stomp?

Hows about:

Stomp (Ex): A Huge or larger guardian juggernaut can stomp an opponent two or more size categories smaller than itself. This is a special full-round action during which the juggernaut moves up to twice its ground speed and attempts to move into its opponent's space. If the victim fails a Reflex save, the opponent takes bludgeoning damage as listed in the "Stomp" column of the Guardian Juggernaut Natural Attacks Table, following which the juggernaut may either pin or kick the opponent. If the victim succeeds at the Reflex save, the victim takes half damage, the juggernaut's movement ends next to the opponent's space, and the opponent may make an attack of opportunity against the juggernaut.

If the juggernaut pins its opponent, the victim automatically taking stomp damage during the next round unless the juggernaut moves off them. If the juggernaut chooses to maintain the pin, treat it as a normal grapple attack. Pinned opponents continue to take stomp damage each round if they don’t escape.

If the juggernaut kicks the opponent, the victim travels 1d6 × 10 feet, and takes 1d6 points of damage per 10 feet traveled plus stomp damage from the kick.

 

[freyar]

Just change "If the juggernaut pins its opponent, the victim automatically taking stomp damage" to "If the juggernaut pins its opponent, the victim automatically takes stomp damage" and we're good.

Are we ready for skills, feats, etc? I tend to think skills should be the same as the base creature, but they may not all be applicable/usable by the juggernaut. The feats are not as clear to me --- ones that require thought/activity would make more sense to be the pilot's, but purely physical ones would be associated with the base construct.

 

[Cleon]

Just change "If the juggernaut pins its opponent, the victim automatically taking stomp damage" to "If the juggernaut pins its opponent, the victim automatically takes stomp damage" and we're good.

That bit got slightly scrambled while I was fiddling around with the draft. Easy enough to fix.

Updating the Guardian Juggernaut Working Draft.

Are we ready for skills, feats, etc? I tend to think skills should be the same as the base creature, but they may not all be applicable/usable by the juggernaut. The feats are not as clear to me --- ones that require thought/activity would make more sense to be the pilot's, but purely physical ones would be associated with the base construct.

I think this will do:

Skills
A guardian juggernaut has the skill points of the base creature but does not gain any skill points from the base construct's Hit Dice. A guardian juggernaut has any racial skill bonuses of the base creature and of the base construct.

Feats
A guardian juggernaut has the feats of the base creature but does not gain any feats from the base construct's Hit Dice. It does gain bonus feats depending on the type of base construct. All juggernauts of at least Huge size gain Snatch as a bonus feat. Winged juggernauts receive Hover as a bonus feat.