Converting Oriental Adventures creatures

[Cleon]

Let's go with 2a. Seems good to me!

Updating The Keeper of the Key Working Draft.

Are spells the only SA left?

It's still got a #### in Rejuvenation for how its remains disappear when it's "destroyed" temporarily.

We've also got the Special Maneuvers. The Keeper had concentrated push, prone fighting, incapacitator, blind fighting, and leap.

Some of those we can cover with Feats though, and didn't we do push for an earlier Seven Sword?

EDIT: Oh, and I'll need to update its Ki Frenzy stats after we figure out all the other bells & whistles (Feats et cetera).

 

[freyar]

For the #####, the original text says that they "dissolve into the wind." Does sometime like that work?

The paper warrior has ki push. Is that what we want? I imagine we can use the blind fight feat for blind fighting. What else can we do with feats?

 

[Cleon]

For the #####, the original text says that they "dissolve into the wind." Does sometime like that work?

So maybe say it "evaporates into nothingness with a chilling gust of wind" or the like?

Don't care much for "dissolves" since that sounds like it melts.

The paper warrior has ki push. Is that what we want?

From what I remember, Concentrated Push is a bit different from Ki Push. It's not action-at-a-distance, but "shove really hard" with the attacker making melee contact with the pushed opponent to push them away. However, it's like that Bruce Lee "one inch punch" where the master appears to slightly tap the target and they go flying.

Will have to pull out my 1E Oriental Adventures and transcribe the text.

We might be able to approximate it with Improved Bull Rush, Improved Overrun or Improved Trip.

I imagine we can use the blind fight feat for blind fighting. What else can we do with feats?

Well Incapacitator might be similar to Stunning Fist, but I think it's a limb-immobilizing maneuver.

Will get back to you with the original text.

 

[freyar]

"Evaporates" is good.

Would something like the Pathfinder (1e) Push rule work?

Push (Ex) A creature with the push ability can choose to make a free combat maneuver check with a certain successful attack (often a slam attack). If successful, this check pushes a creature directly away as with a bull rush, but the distance moved is set by this ability. The type of attack that causes the push and the distance pushed are included in the creature's description. This ability only works on creatures of a size equal to or smaller than the pushing creature. Creatures pushed in this way do not provoke attacks of opportunity and stop if the push would move them into a solid object or creature.

We could just switch the combat maneuver check with a free bull rush.

Immobilization sounds unusual. The original text would definitely be enlightening.

 

[Cleon]

"Evaporates" is good.

Updating The Keeper of the Key Working Draft.

Would something like the Pathfinder (1e) Push rule work?

We could just switch the combat maneuver check with a free bull rush.

Immobilization sounds unusual. The original text would definitely be enlightening.

Yes, it'd be helpful if I transcribe the 1E AD&D versions of these abilities before we start interpreting them!

 

[Cleon]

We've also got the Special Maneuvers. The Keeper had concentrated push, prone fighting, incapacitator, blind fighting, and leap.

Here's the original text on the manoeuvres from Oriental Adventures (1985).

Lock
 Incapacitator: By gripping the opponent and twisting the joints, the character can render one finger, arm, or leg useless for 24 hours and cause normal damage. The effect of incapacitating a limb are explained under the wu jen withering palm spell. A successful to hit roll must be made and the victim is allowed a saving throw vs. paralyzation. If the saving throw is failed, the appropriate limb is rendered useless. If the saving throw is made, the attack fails. An unsuccessful attack (either a failed to hit or a successful saving throw) has no effect on the attacker other than the waste of an attack and the lack of damage done. This maneuver is particularly useful to prevent opponents from escaping or making attacks.

Movement
 Prone Fighting: Prepared for any circumstance, the character is able to fight effectively even when lying on the ground. This special maneuver is constant—it applies any time the character is knocked from his feet. The only limitation is that the character can perform no other special maneuver (except Instant Stand) when prone.
 Leap: The character is able to perform extraordinary feats of springing and leaping by channeling his inner power, mentally making himself as light as a feather. From a standing start the character can spring four feet into the air and three feet forward plus one foot for each level of the character. He can also flip in mid-air to automatically change his facing. Such springs do not take an entire melee round, costing instead only one attack allowed during the round. Thus a character could flip over an opponent, land behind him, and execute an attack from the rear with his next melee attack. From a running start, the character can spring eight feet upward and ten feet forward plus one foot for each level of the character. The character must have at least 10 feet of running space for springing. In both cases, the character must make a normal to hit roll to see if he lands safely. If the roll is made, the leap or spring is successful. If the roll is failed, the character makes the leap but falls to the ground upon landing.

Push
 Concentrated Push: The character focuses his inner energy into his hands, giving him great results even from a gently push. On a successful to hit roll the opponent is knocked back one foot per level of the character. If the distance is greater than three feet, the victim must make a successful saving throw vs. paralyzation to remain on his feet. If the victim hits a solid object, he suffers damage as if he had fallen the same distance. Note that those with Immovability can resist being knocked back. If the Concentrated Push attack is unsuccessful, all attacks made against the character for the remainder of the round have a +2 on their chance to hit.

Mental and Physical Training
 Blind Fighting: Under his master's guidance, the character has trained for long periods while wearing a blindfold or in darkened rooms. This has given the character the ability to detect his foes with his other senses. The character suffers only a -1 penalty when fighting in darkness, when blinded, or when facing invisible opponents. However, any of these in combination with a silence spell renders the character effectively blind again. This maneuver is constantly in effect.​

 [In 3E terms this is simply the Blind-Fight feat].

 

[freyar]

So Concentrated Push is a bull rush based on a touch attack, I guess. We could include the +4 bonus from Imp Bull Rush, too (or more?).

Concentrated Push (Su): As a standard action, the Keeper can make a touch attack that does not provoke an Attack of Opportunity. If the touch attack succeeds, the Keeper and target make opposed Str checks. If the Keeper wins the opposed check, the target moves back 5 feet plus an additional 5 feet for each 5 points by which the Keeper's check exceeds the target's. The Keeper received a +4? bonus on its Str check. Anything about damage from hitting objects or falling prone? I'm ok with simplifying.

Blind Fighting is the feat. Prone Fighting feels like it should be a feat, but I guess we need to write it ourselves. I guess it just says

Prone Fighting (Ex): The Keeper can use ranged and melee weapons while prone with no penalty.

Leap also sounds special, but maybe we can just give the Keeper a big Jump bonus since facing isn't a thing in 3.5. What do you think?

 

[Cleon]

So Concentrated Push is a bull rush based on a touch attack, I guess. We could include the +4 bonus from Imp Bull Rush, too (or more?).

Concentrated Push (Su): As a standard action, the Keeper can make a touch attack that does not provoke an Attack of Opportunity. If the touch attack succeeds, the Keeper and target make opposed Str checks. If the Keeper wins the opposed check, the target moves back 5 feet plus an additional 5 feet for each 5 points by which the Keeper's check exceeds the target's. The Keeper received a +4? bonus on its Str check. Anything about damage from hitting objects or falling prone? I'm ok with simplifying.

If it's a Standard Action I'd be inclined to give it a bit more "oomph" than a regular Bull Rush.

The original attack automatically pushed the target back regardless of their size and strength unless they had a special "stay in place" ability.

Will need to think about this one a bit…

Blind Fighting is the feat.

Definitely.

Prone Fighting feels like it should be a feat, but I guess we need to write it ourselves. I guess it just says

Prone Fighting (Ex): The Keeper can use ranged and melee weapons while prone with no penalty.

Yeah, that ought to do the job. Should we specify that natural and unarmed attacks are included?

What about the AC penalty against melee attacks for being Prone. Is that cancelled as well?

Leap also sounds special, but maybe we can just give the Keeper a big Jump bonus since facing isn't a thing in 3.5. What do you think?

I'd go for a hefty competence bonus to Jump like a Ninja's Acrobatics.

Indeed, I'm tempted to toss on a few other skills. The Ninja Spirit Shadow's Acrobatics gave it +10 on Balance, Climb, Jump, and Tumble checks while the Shadow Walker got +20 to those skills.

Maybe split the difference and give the Keeper +15 Acrobatics?

 

[freyar]

Ugh, I had a long post about this last night, and then the server was down when I hit the post button. Let's see what I can remember!

The original Concentrated Push sounded like an attack action, so I think it should be a standard action. Would increasing the bonus on the Str check and adding damage when the victim hits an object satisfy what you want?

For prone fighting, should natural and unarmed attacks be included in either ranged or melee attacks? Plus, the combat modifiers table mentions melee and ranged, so I think that's what we should use. I do agree about the AC penalty. New version:
Prone Fighting (Ex): The Keeper can use ranged and melee weapons while prone with no penalty and takes no penalty to armor class against melee attacks while prone.

+15 acrobatics sounds good to me!

 

[Cleon]

Ugh, I had a long post about this last night, and then the server was down when I hit the post button. Let's see what I can remember!

The original Concentrated Push sounded like an attack action, so I think it should be a standard action. Would increasing the bonus on the Str check and adding damage when the victim hits an object satisfy what you want?

The problem with that is it'd make it so situational it's unlikely the Keeper would ever bother to use it. It'd almost always have a better standard action to take like a spell.

How about it can substitute one of its unarmed strikes for a Push? Or perhaps ANY unarmed strike, so it could send multiple opponents flying if it gets dogpiled by enemies?

For prone fighting, should natural and unarmed attacks be included in either ranged or melee attacks? Plus, the combat modifiers table mentions melee and ranged, so I think that's what we should use. I do agree about the AC penalty. New version:
Prone Fighting (Ex): The Keeper can use ranged and melee weapons while prone with no penalty and takes no penalty to armor class against melee attacks while prone.

Still reads a bit clunky.

Let's see, the SRD wording for the condition is:

The character is on the ground. An attacker who is prone has a -4 penalty on melee attack rolls and cannot use a ranged weapon (except for a crossbow). A defender who is prone gains a +4 bonus to Armor Class against ranged attacks, but takes a -4 penalty to AC against melee attacks.

Standing up is a move-equivalent action that provokes an attack of opportunity.

How about.

Prone Fighting (Ex): If the Keeper is prone, it takes no penalties on melee attack rolls or AC and can use any ranged weapon it is proficient in.​

+15 acrobatics sounds good to me!

Agreed!