Converting original D&D and Mystara monsters

[Cleon]

Yes, it will be, but we should get on with it! I'll take a look and post about it as soon as I get a chance...

The basic concepts are pretty simple.

An ovinaur can eat the sins of a deceased sapient, which are measured by the dead creature's levels (Hit Dice). This earns the ovinaur XP, but results in the ovinaur suffering randomly determined afflictions that cause Constitution or Charisma penalties. The dice rolled to decide the affliction depend on the ratio of the ovinaur's hit dice to the total number of sin-levels eaten, with more dice for a higher ratio. Once every full moon an ovinaur can attempt to cleanse its sins by making a series of Wisdom checks, each consecutive success lowers the sin-ratio by one ranking.

The benefits of sin-eating is that a creature whose sins have been eaten can't return as an undead. Unfortunately, this means that an ovinaur whose dies before it is able to cleanse the sins it has eaten is liable to return as an undead. An ovinaur cannot eat the sin-levels of another ovinaur.

 

[freyar]

Well, if we can stick to those basics, it won't be too bad. But do you really mean a higher ratio leads to more HD? That sounds like a higher-level ovinaur eating the sin of a low-HD critter suffers worse penalties.

 

[Cleon]

Well, if we can stick to those basics, it won't be too bad. But do you really mean a higher ratio leads to more HD? That sounds like a higher-level ovinaur eating the sin of a low-HD critter suffers worse penalties.

No, the ratio is the other way around.

i.e. a 10 HD ovinaur that's eaten 5 levels of sins is at a 5-to-10 or one-half ratio, while the same ovinaur that's eaten 20 levels of sins has a 20-to-10 or two to one ratio.

 

[freyar]

That's the sin-level-eaten to HD ratio, not the HD to sin-levels-eaten ratio.

Anyway, I think we need to simplify the mechanic a bit. An ability with four tables! Too many!

 

[Cleon]

That's the sin-level-eaten to HD ratio, not the HD to sin-levels-eaten ratio.

Anyway, I think we need to simplify the mechanic a bit. An ability with four tables! Too many!

Erm, yes?

That's how Goatmen of Kovaja says it works: "Each time sins are consumed, compare the accumulated HD-worth of sins to the ovinaur's own experience level."

We seem to be talking at cross purposes here.

Anyway, I think we need to simplify the mechanic a bit. An ability with four tables! Too many!

Well the sin ratios on three of the tables are identical, so we could easily combine them into a single table using separate columns for each quality.

Also, are we going to have sin-eating grant XP like in the original? That doesn't seem a very good idea, since it wouldn't matter to most NPC ovinaurs and seems easily exploitable by PC ovinaurs.

Maybe have it grant empowerment points? Or perhaps we should spin off the original concept somewhat and have it grant a benefit to the one whose sins are eaten, such as removing curses, disease or the like?

 

[freyar]

Erm, yes?

That's how Goatmen of Kovaja says it works: "Each time sins are consumed, compare the accumulated HD-worth of sins to the ovinaur's own experience level."

We seem to be talking at cross purposes here.

I'm just too literal and mathematical --- when you said "HD to sin-levels-eaten," I took it as that (and not the inverse, which we both wanted).

Well the sin ratios on three of the tables are identical, so we could easily combine them into a single table using separate columns for each quality.

Also, are we going to have sin-eating grant XP like in the original? That doesn't seem a very good idea, since it wouldn't matter to most NPC ovinaurs and seems easily exploitable by PC ovinaurs.

Maybe have it grant empowerment points? Or perhaps we should spin off the original concept somewhat and have it grant a benefit to the one whose sins are eaten, such as removing curses, disease or the like?

I'd be ok with swapping gained XP for gained empowerment points. But the one whose sins are eaten is dead, so removing curses or diseases may be of limited use. Like you said above, preventing return as undead is something of a benefit.

 

[Cleon]

I'm just too literal and mathematical --- when you said "HD to sin-levels-eaten," I took it as that (and not the inverse, which we both wanted).

We're agreed then!

So are you also amenable to reducing the tables to two, along the lines of:

Sin Ratio Table

Sin Ratio	Affliction Acuteness	Empowerment Points	Wisdom Check DC
≤ 1 to 4	?	?	?
≤ 1 to 3	?	?	?
≤ 1 to 2	?	?	?
≤ 2 to 3	?	?	?
≤ 1 to 1	?	?	?
≤ 3 to 2	?	?	?
≤ 2 to 1	?	?	?
≤ 3 to 1	?	?	?
≤ 4 to 1	?	?	?
> 4 to 1	?	?	?

Affliction Table

Dice Result	Description	Ability Penalty
?	?	? Charisma
?	?	? Constitution
?	?	? Charisma
?	?	? Constitution

I'd be ok with swapping gained XP for gained empowerment points. But the one whose sins are eaten is dead, so removing curses or diseases may be of limited use. Like you said above, preventing return as undead is something of a benefit.

Well it might be of some use if the deceased is brought back to life, or if the affliction was inheritable or contagious, but I agree it's of limited utility.

I suppose we could do both…

 

[freyar]

The table will work, as long as we're very clear about what "sin ratio" means in the ability text.

I'd rather not complicate the ability too much. Let's at least start by working out the benefit to the sin-eater rather than the "meal."

 

[Cleon]

The table will work, as long as we're very clear about what "sin ratio" means in the ability text.

When we get around to actually writing up the ability I was thinking we'd include an example to clarify that particular point.

I'd rather not complicate the ability too much. Let's at least start by working out the benefit to the sin-eater rather than the "meal."

Sure. What do you have in mind? The thing is, an XP bonus doesn't have any impact if it's a one-of encounter. At least if the sin-eating cleanses the corpse of some condition it might actual be plot-relevant. i.e. the PCs are rushing to get an evil wizard's sins eaten to prevent his corpse rising as a lich.

So are we going for bonus empowerment points as we discussed before? Maybe with some restrictions on how those points may be spent - perhaps they can only be used to affect evil creatures (i.e. the "sinful")?

Speaking of simplification, I was wondering about removing the descriptions of the symptoms and just listing the Constitution and Charisma penalties in the table. We can mention in the flavour text that the Con penalty is accompanied by physical symptoms and the Cha penalty by social afflictions.

Hmm... upon reflection, let's keep the descriptions but make it clear they're examples only and the DM (or player?) can opt for different afflictions.

 

[freyar]

Going in reverse order:

I'd agree with keeping only penalties in the table and allowing the DM or player to decide on what description to use.

I do like bonus empowerment points as the benefit for the sin-eater. I don't know if they need restrictions (especially use against evil creatures, since the original text specifies that sin-eaters can be any alignment); the afflictions are probably enough of a penalty.

As for plot-relevance, you give a good example of the use of sin-eating on an NPC since it prevents return as an undead. If you want to add something else, what if it provides the effects of gentle repose or something?