Converting original D&D and Mystara monsters

[freyar]

Heh, or positive levels from undead. Do you want to leave in the idea that it can't affect lawful critters? Seems a bit biased, though I guess it makes sense if goatlings are themselves lawful (or good). Anyway, here's a draft without it.

Discerp (Su): X times per day, a goatling can drain energy from magical creatures, including undead, dragons, and outsiders. The victim must be physically or magically restrained in some way. The victim must make a DC X Will save or gain a negative level (positive level in the case of undead), and the goatling gains 10 empowerment points. If the victim has as many negative levels as HD, it falls unconscious rather than dying. Negative levels are recovered at the rate of 1/day and never become permanent.

 

[Cleon]

Heh, or positive levels from undead. Do you want to leave in the idea that it can't affect lawful critters? Seems a bit biased, though I guess it makes sense if goatlings are themselves lawful (or good). Anyway, here's a draft without it.

I read it as saying Goatlings are Chaotic and it's more a "feed on similarity" deal.

Discerp (Su): X times per day, a goatling can drain energy from magical creatures, including undead, dragons, and outsiders. The victim must be physically or magically restrained in some way. The victim must make a DC X Will save or gain a negative level (positive level in the case of undead), and the goatling gains 10 empowerment points. If the victim has as many negative levels as HD, it falls unconscious rather than dying. Negative levels are recovered at the rate of 1/day and never become permanent.

I don't recall there being any support for it feeding on Dragons in the original. I was thinking more it only works on Undead and Evil or Chaotic Outsiders.

Apart from that it seems a good start.

 

[freyar]

It said "enchanted" creatures, so I threw in dragons as they're typically considered powerfully magical. But we can take that out. Do you prefer to restrict outsiders to those with C or E alignments (or corresponding subtypes)?

 

[Cleon]

It said "enchanted" creatures, so I threw in dragons as they're typically considered powerfully magical. But we can take that out. Do you prefer to restrict outsiders to those with C or E alignments (or corresponding subtypes)?

Hold on a mo, "enchanted" creature has a specific meaning in BECMI D&D.

Allow me to quote from the Rules Compendium:

"Enchanted" monsters are identified (i.e., the monster can only be harmed by magical weapons or is magically summoned or controlled), and these monsters can be affected by such spells as protection from evil 10' radius.
​

That suggests limiting it to Undead and creatures with the Extraplanar subtype.

 

[freyar]

Hmmm, such as

Discerp (Su): X times per day, a goatling can drain energy from magical creatures, including undead and extraplanar creatures. The victim must be physically or magically restrained in some way. The victim must make a DC X Will save or gain a negative level (positive level in the case of undead), and the goatling gains 10 empowerment points. If the victim has as many negative levels as HD, it falls unconscious rather than dying. Negative levels are recovered at the rate of 1/day and never become permanent.

Any tweaking or suggestions for the numbers?

 

[Cleon]

Hmmm, such as

Discerp (Su): X times per day, a goatling can drain energy from magical creatures, including undead and extraplanar creatures. The victim must be physically or magically restrained in some way. The victim must make a DC X Will save or gain a negative level (positive level in the case of undead), and the goatling gains 10 empowerment points. If the victim has as many negative levels as HD, it falls unconscious rather than dying. Negative levels are recovered at the rate of 1/day and never become permanent.

Any tweaking or suggestions for the numbers?

The first sentence is a bit vague, I prefer "X times per day, a goatling can drain energy from an undead creature or a creature with the Extraplanar subtype."

I'm still tempted to limit it to outsiders too, e.g.: "X times per day, a goatling can drain energy from an undead creature or an outsider with the Extraplanar subtype."

 

[freyar]

Fiendish and celestial creatures summoned using the typical summon monster spells are extraplanar magical beasts, so I'd prefer the broader version. Makes me think most goatlings with caster levels would learn summoning spells!

Discerp (Su): X times per day, a goatling can drain energy from an undead creature or a creature with the Extraplanar subtype. The victim must be physically or magically restrained in some way. The victim must make a DC X Will save or gain a negative level (positive level in the case of undead), and the goatling gains 10 empowerment points. If the victim has as many negative levels as HD, it falls unconscious rather than dying. Negative levels are recovered at the rate of 1/day and never become permanent.

 

[Cleon]

Fiendish and celestial creatures summoned using the typical summon monster spells are extraplanar magical beasts, so I'd prefer the broader version. Makes me think most goatlings with caster levels would learn summoning spells!

Discerp (Su): X times per day, a goatling can drain energy from an undead creature or a creature with the Extraplanar subtype. The victim must be physically or magically restrained in some way. The victim must make a DC X Will save or gain a negative level (positive level in the case of undead), and the goatling gains 10 empowerment points. If the victim has as many negative levels as HD, it falls unconscious rather than dying. Negative levels are recovered at the rate of 1/day and never become permanent.

I'm fine with that first sentence, are we going for the standard 3/day?

Does spell resistance protect against Discerp?

The Main thing to figure out is the DC. What ability is it keyed off? I was fancying making the 'Goat Magic' SLAs Int-based, so do we use Int for it too?

Presumably it's based on the usual 10 + 1/2 HD + ability rather than being 10 + level + ability like an SLA, but can the goatfolk boost the DC with empowerment or just by having a whole bunch of 'em working together?

They're using this power to subdue a Demon Lord, remember, so they should be able to get the DC up high enough to squash that fiend's Will save.

 

[freyar]

I guess 3/day would work.

As an Su ability, SR shouldn't apply to it. I suppose one could argue that the original ability was a spell, so SR should appy, but that would only make it harder to hit something like a demon lord. So let's not do anything exceptional to make SR apply.

Yes, I agree to the usual DC formula, and I'm ok with Int-based. It does seem reasonable to boost the DC. I think I kind of prefer allowing them to work together in some way to boost the DC (+2 per extra goatling up to some max number, I guess). The main question is if they each have to expend a daily use of discerp or not. What are your thoughts?

 

[Cleon]

I guess 3/day would work.

Checking the original they could only discerp once per full moon, which is a lot less than 3/day. Shall we make it 1/month to match?

As an Su ability, SR shouldn't apply to it. I suppose one could argue that the original ability was a spell, so SR should appy, but that would only make it harder to hit something like a demon lord. So let's not do anything exceptional to make SR apply.

Or it could just be a spell that SR doesn't apply to. There are plenty of those. Too many, in fact.

Still, let's keep it a Su so we don't need to worry about spell resistance.

I'm wondering whether Goatlings were intended to discerp Biergorna's enemies before they rebelled?

Yes, I agree to the usual DC formula, and I'm ok with Int-based. It does seem reasonable to boost the DC. I think I kind of prefer allowing them to work together in some way to boost the DC (+2 per extra goatling up to some max number, I guess). The main question is if they each have to expend a daily use of discerp or not. What are your thoughts?

In Goatmen of Kavaja it describes a party of high-level goatlings going to a catacomb to refresh the binding and discerp on the trapped fiends, which suggests a limit based on HD or CL.

Maybe +1 per extra goatling, maximum = lowest CL of participating goatlings?

So if they have a fifteen (or a hundred) goatlings of CL 12th-17th, the maximum they can get is +12.