Converting Planescape monsters

[Cleon]

Just spotted another error in the Salt Quasi-Elemental Working Draft.

The Monolith's Initiative was +4 when it should just be +2, the same as its Dex modifier.

It's been fixed.

 

[freyar]

OK, this is all fine by me.

The easy thing to do next is add Earth Glide, as the earth elemental and xorn. And I'd actually think their "regeneration" sounds more like fast healing in 3.5e terms. And we need to make them vulnerable to acid as well as immune to petrification and paralysis.

The merging thing is going to be the tough part. Ready to tackle that next?

 

[Cleon]

OK, this is all fine by me.

The easy thing to do next is add Earth Glide, as the earth elemental and xorn. And I'd actually think their "regeneration" sounds more like fast healing in 3.5e terms. And we need to make them vulnerable to acid as well as immune to petrification and paralysis.

Yes, Earth Glide and Fast Healing are definitely the best 3E matches to the original's "can also pass through stone at will" and "regenerate 2 hit points per round as long as they’re alive". We need to agree on how much Fast Healing.

I agree to adding Vulnerability to Acid and Immunity to Petrification, but Immunity to Paralysis is surplus to requirements since it's an immunity that comes as standard with the Elemental Type.

The merging thing is going to be the tough part. Ready to tackle that next?

Works for me.

I assume that means I ought to update the Working Draft with the above.

 

[freyar]

Yes, let's update with that.

First question on the merging, then. One version says only 2 may merge, but the other says multiple merges may occur. What do you prefer? I lean toward the former, just to keep things simple.

 

[Cleon]

Yes, let's update with that.

Updating the Mineral Quasi-Elemental Working Draft.

I'm thinking we could give it Earth Mastery and Push like a regular Earth Elemental. What do you think?

First question on the merging, then. One version says only 2 may merge, but the other says multiple merges may occur. What do you prefer? I lean toward the former, just to keep things simple.

I prefer the "multiple merges are possible". It shouldn't make it that much more complicated.

As I see it, the basic Merge would be something like this:

Two mineral quasi-elemental of the same size can merge together. The resulting merged creature has the statistics of a mineral quasi-elemental one category higher than the component mineral quasi-elementals (e.g. two merged Huge mineral quasi-elementals have the stats of a greater mineral quasi-elemental), with the following alterations:

1. The merged creature's Hit Dice equal the sum of the Hit Dice of its component quasi-elementals. The merged creature has a maximum HD of 108 [? = twice a Monolith's HD?]. If the merged creature would exceed this limit, the merger can not occur. Recalculate the quasi-elemental's statistics that depend upon Hit Dice if the merged creature's HD are different from a standard quasi-elemental of its size.
2. The merged creature has twice the number of slam attacks and twice the fast healing of an unmerged mineral quasi-elemental of its size category.
3. The merged creature can reach the size of a monolith quasi-elemental, but no larger.

Mineral quasi-elementals are capable of merging multiple times. Each merger must be between two creatures of the same size, but each creature can be either a normal mineral quasi-elemental or a merged mineral quasi-elemental. The Hit Dice of the resulting creature equals the sum of the HD of all the component mineral quasi-elementals. The fast healing and number of slam attacks do not stack, but are always double the value that would be possessed by a mineral quasi-elemental of the final merged creature's size. Thus, an elder mineral quasi-elemental former from sixteen Medium mineral quasi-elementals merged together has four slam attacks and fast healing X.

 

[freyar]

Well, they already get the Merge ability, so I don't know if I want to give them everything the Earth Elemental has. Maybe just Push?

I think your proposed Merge ability could work. I don't really have anything to add to it, actually.

 

[Cleon]

Well, they already get the Merge ability, so I don't know if I want to give them everything the Earth Elemental has. Maybe just Push?

I'd be happy just giving them Push.

Earth Mastery is at least as much a weakness as a strength, due to the -4 penalty against airborn or waterborn opponents.

So shall I update it with that?

I think your proposed Merge ability could work. I don't really have anything to add to it, actually.

Good! All that's left is writing it up. I thought of a few things that needed to be added, such as how it separates (including the original's "separated by lightning damage" SQ).

So how about this:

Merge (Su): Two mineral quasi-elemental of the same size can merge together into a single being as a standard action. The resulting merged creature has the statistics of a mineral quasi-elemental one category higher than the component mineral quasi-elementals (e.g. two Huge mineral quasi-elementals merge into a greater mineral quasi-elemental), with the following alterations.

• The merged creature's Hit Dice equal the sum of the Hit Dice of its component quasi-elementals. The maximum size of a merged creature is a monolith mineral quasi-elemental with 108 Hit Dice. Any merging that would exceed this limit will automatically fail. Recalculate statistics that depend upon Hit Dice if the merged creature's HD are different from a standard mineral quasi-elemental of its size.
• The merged creature has twice the number of slam attacks and twice the fast healing of an unmerged mineral quasi-elemental of its size category.
• Susceptibility to Lightning (Ex): The merged creature gains the special quality that it must succeed at a Fortitude save whenever it takes electricity damage (DC 15 or the DC of the attack, whichever is greater) or instantly separate into its component mineral quasi-elementals.

Mineral quasi-elementals are capable of merging multiple times. Each merger must be between two creatures of the same size, but each creature can be either a normal mineral quasi-elemental or a merged mineral quasi-elemental. The Hit Dice of the resulting creature equals the sum of the HD of all the component mineral quasi-elementals. The fast healing and number of slam attacks do not stack over multiple mergings, but are always double the value that would be possessed by a mineral quasi-elemental of the final merged creature's size. Thus, an elder mineral quasi-elemental former from sixteen Medium mineral quasi-elementals merged together has four slam attacks and fast healing X [?].

The merged creature can separate into its component mineral quasi-elementals as a swift action. Any damage it has taken will be divided as evenly as possible between the component creatures.

The merged creature is considered to be a single creature for the purpose of effects that target a specific number of targets, such as charm monster, but it is only considered a single creature as long as it is merged. If the merged creature separates any ongoing effects will only continue if they are able to affect all the mineral quasi-elementals it was formed from.

 

[freyar]

Yes, let's just add Push from the Earth Elemental.

I'll go with the proposed Merge ability, too. The only thing is that it might be fun to make the Susceptibility to Lightning DC be equal to 10 or 15 + damage dealt rather than a "flat" value.

 

[Cleon]

Yes, let's just add Push from the Earth Elemental.

I'll go with the proposed Merge ability, too.

Updating the Mineral Quasi-Elemental Working Draft.

Remember we've still got the Fast Healing to do. As well as deciding on the actual numbers, it needs a description as the Mineral Quasi's fast healing has a weakness similiar to Antaeus:

Fast Healing (Ex): A mineral quasi-elemental's fast healing ability only functions when it is in contact with a mass of inanimate matter (earth, rock, soil, et cetera) that weighs at least tone-tenth, one-twentieth?] as much as the quasi-elemental itself.

The only thing is that it might be fun to make the Susceptibility to Lightning DC be equal to 10 or 15 + damage dealt rather than a "flat" value.

I would be quite happy to make the DC damage-based but would disagree on the actual scaling.

Let's say you have two Large Mineral quasis merged into a Huge gestalt creature. According to the normal CR rules, two CR 5 creatures is a CR 7 encounter, so what happens if it gets hit by a lightning bolt cast by a 7th level sorcerer?

A 7d6 lightning bolt averages 24.5 damage, so that either DC 34.5 or DC 39.5 depending on whether its 10+damage or 15+damage. It's academic, because the merged creature has a +13 Fortititude save so wouldn't be able to hit either of those numbers.

Hmm... let's see how it goes for two merged quasis of all the sizes:

Merged Sizes	Fort Save	CR/CL	lightning bolt Damage	Avg. DC base 10	Avg. DC base 15
Small+Small	+6	3	3d6 (10.5)	20.5	25.5
Medium+Medium	+9	5	5d6 (17.5)	27.5	32.5
Large+Large	+13	7	7d6 (24.5)	34.5	39.5
Huge+Huge	+19	9	9d6 (31.5)	41.5	46.5
Greater+Greater	+25	11	11d6 (38.5)	48.5	53.5
Elder+Elder	+33	17?	17d6 (59.5)	69.5	64.5
Monolith+Monolith	+45	19	19d6 (66.5)	76.5	81.5

As you can see, the average save DCs are unachievable for the respective Fort saves at sizes of Large and upwards, and for Medium merged minerals it only has a chance of making the save for a 1d6 per caster level attack if the DC is 10+damage.

However, if we make the DC say 10 or 15 plus half damage, the numbers work out relatively well:

Hmm... let's see how it goes for two merged quasis of all the sizes:

Merged Sizes	Fort Save	CR/CL	lightning bolt Damage	Avg. DC base 10	Avg. DC base 15
Small+Small	+6	3	3d6 (10.5)	15	20
Medium+Medium	+9	5	5d6 (17.5)	18	23
Large+Large	+13	7	7d6 (24.5)	22	27
Huge+Huge	+19	9	9d6 (31.5)	25	30
Greater+Greater	+25	11	11d6 (38.5)	29	34
Elder+Elder	+33	17?	17d6 (59.5)	39	44
Monolith+Monolith	+45	19	19d6 (66.5)	43	48

That looks more reasonable, especially the 15+half damage column.

There's still an issue with the dice spread producing a wide range of DCs - e.g. an 11d6 lightning bolt would result in a DC from 15 to 43 (base 10) or 20 to 48 (base 15), so it ranges from autosuccess to autofailure for a merged Greater Quasielemental's +25 Fort save with its result range of 26 to 45. Still, that's liveable.

It is worth noting that the larger sizes of merged quasis have VERY high Fort saves due to their excessively high Hit Dice, so if we were to use regular spell saves it's likely they wouldn't fail. A typical 11th level sorcerer's lightning bolt is probably DC 20 or so, after all.

Oh, and note that I've listed the merged Elder Quasis with CR 17 like a Monolith rather than the CR 13 like two CR 11 creatures would normally have, since such a merger is much tougher than two CR 11 creatures normally would be.

Indeed, should we add a note as to the effective CR of encounters with multiple quasi-elementals? Even two Large mineral quasis merged together have double the attacks and healing of a regular Huge mineral quasi, and two Elders merged together have more Hit Dice than a regular Monolith - 48 HD rather than 36 - as well as the doubled attacks and healing, so ought to be a significantly higher CR threat.

 

[freyar]

I could go for the DC = 15+ half damage. You do make a good point that the EL for two mineral quasis is going to be a bit strange --- we should probably adjust the CR of individuals up a little to account for that. Or else put in a special note as you say.

For fast healing, let's say 1/10 of the quasi-elemental's weight. For the value, do you want to go with 1/"age category"?