Converting prehistoric creatures
Cleon
Legend
Cleon
Legend
I didn't fancy going back through all the monsters we've already declared finished and adding accreditations, but we should do it to the Conversion in Progress as we update them.
Updating Ferry Turtle Working Draft.
were'nt we more-or-less out of them? Isn't that why we're stretching the definition of "prehistoric critter" to include giant-sized Pre-Cambrian lifeforms and intelligent turtles?
Anyhow, I have no objection to letting this thread go to sleep for a while.
Cleon
Legend
While reviewing out CC entries I discovered we don't have a conversion for the Cave Bear - probably because we got it confused with our conversion for the Bulldog Bear.
We might as well do it, just for completeness sake.
We might as well do it, just for completeness sake.
Cleon
Legend
Actually, there are two old edition Cave Bears. There's an AD&D Cave Bear that is smaller and weaker than the BECMI version.
The AD&D Cave Bear is neatly inbetween the AD&D Brown Bear and Polar Bear in strength:
Brown: 5+5 HD, attacks of 1-6/1-6/1-8, 9' tall.
Cave: 6+6 HD, attacks of 1-8/1-8/1-12, 12' tall.
Polar: 8+8 HD, attacks of 1-10/1-10/2-12, 14' tall.
The BECMI Cave Bear is the strongest of the regular Bears in that system, with the Polar Bear being neatly between it and the Grizzly Bear, that system's version of the Brown:
Grizzly: 5 HD, attacks of 1d8/1d8/1d10, 9' tall.
Polar: 6 HD, attacks of 1d6/1d6/1d10, 11' tall.
Cave: 7 HD, attacks of 2d4/2d4/2d6, 15' tall.
Even I'm not obsessive enough to want to convert two separate versions, so I'd be OK combining the two into one.
I'll post the original stats.
Cleon
Legend
Cave Bear Original Stats
This is the most recent AD&D version:
Bear
Cave
Climate/Terrain: Any land
Frequency: Uncommon
Organization: Family
Activity Cycle: Day
Diet: Omnivore
Intelligence: Semi- (2- 4)
Treasure: Nil
Alignment: Neutral
No. Appearing: 1-2
Armor Class: 6
Movement: 12
Hit Dice: 6+6
THAC0: 13
No. of Attacks: 3
Damage/Attack: 1- 8/1-8/1-12
Special Attacks: Hug
Special Defenses: Nil
Magic Resistance: Nil
Size: H (12’+ tall)
Morale: Average (8-10)
XP Value: 650
A rather common omnivorous mammal, bears tend to avoid humans unless provoked. Exceptions to this rule can be a most unfortunate occurrence.
Bears are, in general, large and powerful animals which are found throughout the world’s temperate and cooler climates. With dense fur protecting them from the elements and powerful claws protecting them from other animals, bears are the true rulers of the animal kingdom in the areas where they live.
*SNIP*
Habitat/Society: All bears have excellent senses of hearing and smell but rather poor eyesight. The size shown is an average for the variety and larger individuals will, of course, be correspondingly more powerful.
One common misconception people hold about bears is that they hibernate during the winter. In fact, they sleep most of the time, but their metabolism does not slow down, and they often wake up and leave their lairs during warm spells.
Bears live in small family groups. Female bears are very protective of their young, and more than one individual has been badly injured when taunting or playing with seemingly harmless bear cubs.
Ecology: All of these ursoids are omnivorous, although the gigantic cave bear tends towards a diet of meat.
Bears are fairly intelligent animals that can be trained to perform in a variety of ways, particularly if captured as cubs. Bears can thus be found dancing in circuses or accompanying “mountain men” in the wilderness.
Cave Bear
Cave bears are quite aggressive, willing to attack well-armed parties without provocation. If a cave bear scores a paw hit with an 18 or better it also hugs for 2-16 (2d8) points of additional damage. Cave bears will continue to fight for 1-4 melee rounds after reaching 0 to -8 hit points. At -9 or fewer hit points, they are killed immediately.
Originally from Monster Manual (1977); updated to 2nd Edition AD&D in Monstrous Compendium Volume One (1989) and reprinted in Monstrous Manual (1993).
This is the BECMI version from the Rules Cyclopedia:
Bear
Cave
Armor Class: 5
Hit Dice: 7 (L)
Move: 120’ (40’)
Attacks: 2 claws/1 bite
Damage: 2d4/2d4/2d6
No. Appearing: 1-2 (1d2)
Save As: F4
Morale: 9
Treasure Type: V
Intelligence: 2
Alignment: Neutral
XP Value: 450
Monster Type: Black, Grizzly Bears: Normal Animal (Common). Polar Bear: Normal Animal (Rare). Cave Bear: Prehistoric Animal (Very Rare).
Bears are well known to all adventurers. If any bear hits one victim with both paws in one round, the bear hugs its victim and inflicts 2d8 points of additional damage in that same round.
Cave Bear: These enormous bears stand about 15’ tall. They do not see well at all but hunt very well by scent. If hungry, they will follow a track of blood until they have eaten. They prefer a diet of fresh-killed red meat and live in caves, mostly in prehistoric environments or very distant mountain areas where human civilization has not penetrated.
Terrain: Hill, Mountain, Woods. (Cave Bear: Same, but prehistoric.)
From D&D Rules Cyclopedia (1991).
The BECMI Cave Bear first appeared in the Moldvay Basic Set with an interesting bit of flavour text:
Cave bear: A cave bear is a type of giant grizzly bear which lives in caves and “lost world” areas. It stands about 15’ tall and is the most ferocious of all the bears. Though omnivorous, a cave bear prefers meat and enjoys human flesh. Cave bears have bad eyesight but a good sense of smell. If hungry, they will follow a track of blood until they have eaten.
D&D Basic Set (Moldvay, 1981).
This is the most recent AD&D version:
Bear
Cave
Climate/Terrain: Any land
Frequency: Uncommon
Organization: Family
Activity Cycle: Day
Diet: Omnivore
Intelligence: Semi- (2- 4)
Treasure: Nil
Alignment: Neutral
No. Appearing: 1-2
Armor Class: 6
Movement: 12
Hit Dice: 6+6
THAC0: 13
No. of Attacks: 3
Damage/Attack: 1- 8/1-8/1-12
Special Attacks: Hug
Special Defenses: Nil
Magic Resistance: Nil
Size: H (12’+ tall)
Morale: Average (8-10)
XP Value: 650
A rather common omnivorous mammal, bears tend to avoid humans unless provoked. Exceptions to this rule can be a most unfortunate occurrence.
Bears are, in general, large and powerful animals which are found throughout the world’s temperate and cooler climates. With dense fur protecting them from the elements and powerful claws protecting them from other animals, bears are the true rulers of the animal kingdom in the areas where they live.
*SNIP*
Habitat/Society: All bears have excellent senses of hearing and smell but rather poor eyesight. The size shown is an average for the variety and larger individuals will, of course, be correspondingly more powerful.
One common misconception people hold about bears is that they hibernate during the winter. In fact, they sleep most of the time, but their metabolism does not slow down, and they often wake up and leave their lairs during warm spells.
Bears live in small family groups. Female bears are very protective of their young, and more than one individual has been badly injured when taunting or playing with seemingly harmless bear cubs.
Ecology: All of these ursoids are omnivorous, although the gigantic cave bear tends towards a diet of meat.
Bears are fairly intelligent animals that can be trained to perform in a variety of ways, particularly if captured as cubs. Bears can thus be found dancing in circuses or accompanying “mountain men” in the wilderness.
Cave Bear
Cave bears are quite aggressive, willing to attack well-armed parties without provocation. If a cave bear scores a paw hit with an 18 or better it also hugs for 2-16 (2d8) points of additional damage. Cave bears will continue to fight for 1-4 melee rounds after reaching 0 to -8 hit points. At -9 or fewer hit points, they are killed immediately.
Originally from Monster Manual (1977); updated to 2nd Edition AD&D in Monstrous Compendium Volume One (1989) and reprinted in Monstrous Manual (1993).
This is the BECMI version from the Rules Cyclopedia:
Bear
Cave
Armor Class: 5
Hit Dice: 7 (L)
Move: 120’ (40’)
Attacks: 2 claws/1 bite
Damage: 2d4/2d4/2d6
No. Appearing: 1-2 (1d2)
Save As: F4
Morale: 9
Treasure Type: V
Intelligence: 2
Alignment: Neutral
XP Value: 450
Monster Type: Black, Grizzly Bears: Normal Animal (Common). Polar Bear: Normal Animal (Rare). Cave Bear: Prehistoric Animal (Very Rare).
Bears are well known to all adventurers. If any bear hits one victim with both paws in one round, the bear hugs its victim and inflicts 2d8 points of additional damage in that same round.
Cave Bear: These enormous bears stand about 15’ tall. They do not see well at all but hunt very well by scent. If hungry, they will follow a track of blood until they have eaten. They prefer a diet of fresh-killed red meat and live in caves, mostly in prehistoric environments or very distant mountain areas where human civilization has not penetrated.
Terrain: Hill, Mountain, Woods. (Cave Bear: Same, but prehistoric.)
From D&D Rules Cyclopedia (1991).
The BECMI Cave Bear first appeared in the Moldvay Basic Set with an interesting bit of flavour text:
Cave bear: A cave bear is a type of giant grizzly bear which lives in caves and “lost world” areas. It stands about 15’ tall and is the most ferocious of all the bears. Though omnivorous, a cave bear prefers meat and enjoys human flesh. Cave bears have bad eyesight but a good sense of smell. If hungry, they will follow a track of blood until they have eaten.
D&D Basic Set (Moldvay, 1981).
Cleon
Legend
AD&D and BECMI Cave bears use the exact same "hug" mechanic as the other standard bears (black, brown, polar etc.), suggesting we should just give them Improved Grab like the SRD Brown and Polar Bears.
Yes, i was thinking 7 Hit Dice too. This makes them smaller than the 3E/AD&D Polar Bear's 8 HD. It makes more sense to use the BECMI version since it has more differences from a brown/polar bear.
The SRD Brown Bear and Polar Bear have identical ability scores, natural weapon damage and AC.
The BECMI Cave Bear has a 1-point better AC, higher damage (2d6 bite vs. 1d10, plus 2d4 claws vs 1d8 or 1d6)
Give it another point of NA and 2d4 claws and 2d8 bite like a Dire Bear?
I'd rather not give it a higher Con, since all the Large Bears in the SRD have Con 19. I'd be willing to entertain a 2 point increase in Strength, though.
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