Convincing 4th Edition players to consider 5th Edition

[Hussar]

Last time I saw a Deck in my game I think 4 of 6 party members drew from it; the other two peered out from behind a hedge. (after which one of the PCs stole it from the party, left the party, took it to town, and sold it...)

Last time I saw one as a player the party was 9 or 10 strong and either everyone drew or only one did not, I forget which.

Lanefan

I have to admit, my experiences jive with Lanefan's here, quite possibly including peering from behind something thick and protective.

Even when I introduced a Bag of Beans with over 100 different effects, they spent significant time playing with it.

Kinda goes back to the whole, "Do you push the button" thing. IME, OF COURSE players push the big red button.

 

[Ahnehnois]

I have to admit, my experiences jive with Lanefan's here, quite possibly including peering from behind something thick and protective.

Even when I introduced a Bag of Beans with over 100 different effects, they spent significant time playing with it.

Kinda goes back to the whole, "Do you push the button" thing. IME, OF COURSE players push the big red button.

My players always seem rather risk averse. Perhaps because my PC mortality rate is higher...

 

[Hussar]

My players always seem rather risk averse. Perhaps because my PC mortality rate is higher...

Higher than what? Last 3e campaign I ran, I whacked 27 PC's in an 18 month campaign. Playing 3e by the book is extremely lethal. And, at a guess, Lanefan's campaigns are hardly death light.

However, nothing ventured, nothing gained.

 

[Ahnehnois]

[MENTION=22779]Hussar[/MENTION] Purely speculation on my part. My last campaign actually had no player deaths (until the end, which doesn't really count) due to plot immunity. My earlier ones have often been rather lethal. But maybe it's just a matter of different groups having different personalities. One way or another, mine don't always push the red button.

 

[Hussar]

This reminds me of this discussion: http://www.enworld.org/forum/general-rpg-discussion/174075-good-idea-pull-lever-dungeon.html

 

[Lanefan]

[MENTION=22779]Hussar[/MENTION] Purely speculation on my part. My last campaign actually had no player deaths (until the end, which doesn't really count) due to plot immunity. My earlier ones have often been rather lethal. But maybe it's just a matter of different groups having different personalities. One way or another, mine don't always push the red button.

My lot push the red button even when there isn't one to push.

And if pushing the red button gets nowhere, they break it.

Lan-"sometimes their self-preservation instinct vaguely resembles that of a moth flying into a candle flame"-efan

 

[D'karr]

My lot push the red button even when there isn't one to push.

And if pushing the red button gets nowhere, they break it.

Lan-"sometimes their self-preservation instinct vaguely resembles that of a moth flying into a candle flame"-efan

My players usually have this "idea" that I'm out to kill their PCs. The funny part is that 99% of the D&D (death and dismemberment) in my games have been a direct result of the PCs "metaphorically" pushing the Big Red Button.

I don't even have to work hard to create a threatening environment. My players do that all on their own. It is so much fun to watch, but so difficult to keep a straight face.



-

 

[Crazy Jerome]

I think things like the Deck of Many Things are ultimately more fun for the DM than the players, especially when playing in the style where the Deck is tempting but strategically a bad risk. You get a vibe going sometimes where the players have been constantly pushing the DM's buttons, wrecking things without ever really getting out of line, and generally having a grand time trashing the campaign (in a mostly good way). So the DM, as a good DM, smiles and rolls with it, best he can. One of the first things he is going to do in such a campaign, once he realizes the nature of what has happened, is start giving the PCs enough rope to hang themselves. The Deck is an awful lot of rope.

The last time I included something like a Deck in a campaign, the entire party not only didn't draw from it, but went to a great deal of expense and trouble to seal it away where no one else would be tempted, either. They even arranged to have it magically shielded, and then got their memories tampered with so that they wouldn't be tempted to go back and get it. So the Deck wasn't very much fun by itself, but all the challenges they experienced finally getting it safely buried where. That was a Fantasy Hero campaign, but I think they made about the equivalent of 2 D&D levels in the six months or so of game time that they spent arranging all that. (Other things were going on at the same time.)

 

[Aenghus]

This is IMO, but the Deck of Many Things is a good symbol for everything I despise in ultra random death D&D. I hate high swinginess, situations where random death (or fates worst than death ) hides behind every door, with little or no chance to avoid any of it, and a dearth of opportunity for intelligent tactics.

I could create a pc who would be willing to draw from the deck, but I wouldn't anticipate them surviving very long due to taking one risk too many.

Now I'm very risk adverse, so this isn't surprising. However, I find in practise that highly random games also feature situational fudging.

Giving instigator type PCs some plot protection for their crazy stunts is fairly common I think. As a player my personal instinct is to lock up instigator PCs and keep them away from anything sharp or with a red button. As a referee they are handy to keep action going, but are a problem when logically their antics should e.g. blow up the world. What do you do, what do you do?

 

[P1NBACK]

Really? Forgoing or forsaking a great but risky magical power is kind of a fantasy trope. Isn't that the whole point of LotR? That you have this great magic ring but can't do anything with it and have to get rid of it? What's memorable is not the item itself, but what that item brings out of the characters.

Exactly.

I will take a scary, risky magical item any day over +1 Generic Thing with X Daily Power... *yawn*