Correct me if I'm wrong: Paladin Marks

[Alabast]

Correct me if I'm wrong:

An enemy that has been marked by a Paladin only takes damage from attacking another creature if the marked condition was caused by the Divine Challenge At-Will ability. If the Paladin marked the creature through another ability, say the Justicar ability that marks every enemy in a burst (I can't remember what it's called), then they just have the "normal" marked condition (-2 to hit other creatures) without the damage if they make an attack against someone else.

 

[James McMurray]

That's correct. The damage is packaged with Divine Challenge, not as a seperate class feature.

 

[CapnZapp]

The fact there's a separate "Marked" condition that has essentially nothing to do with the class abilities of Fighters and Paladins is remarkably poorly introduced in PHB.

First you read the powers chapter in the mistaken belief "marked" means combat/divine challenge. Only when you reach the Conditions section of the Combat chapter, if even then, do you realize you have been wrong...

A PS. The mark from Combat Challenge isn't the same as the condition called "Marked". DS would have been an exceedingly helpful addition to the Fighter description...

 

[JasonZZ]

The fact there's a separate "Marked" condition that has essentially nothing to do with the class abilities of Fighters and Paladins is remarkably poorly introduced in PHB.

First you read the powers chapter in the mistaken belief "marked" means combat/divine challenge. Only when you reach the Conditions section of the Combat chapter, if even then, do you realize you have been wrong...

A PS. The mark from Combat Challenge isn't the same as the condition called "Marked". DS would have been an exceedingly helpful addition to the Fighter description...

I believe you've misunderstood. The marked condition is at the heart of how defenders work--a penalty to attack anyone other than the defender; the secondary effects simply make defenders better at it (because other classes do have some marking abilities here and there). The mark from a fighter's Combat Challenge is the same as the marked condition. That it also allows a fighter immediate reaction attacks is another fighter class feature. Likewise, Divine Challenge applies both the marked and "damage if you attack and don't include me" effects.

 

[LightPhoenix]

I believe you've misunderstood. <snip>

I believe his point is that the the bonus effects that Defenders get when a creature is marked should be explained a little clearer as a secondary effect to the marked condition. In essence, it's not explained that "marked" is a condition anyone could apply until after it's already been presented as the mechanic for Fighter and Paladin abilities. The objection is the use of the term prior to it being defined, which causes confusion.

 

[JasonZZ]

I believe his point is that the the bonus effects that Defenders get when a creature is marked should be explained a little clearer as a secondary effect to the marked condition. In essence, it's not explained that "marked" is a condition anyone could apply until after it's already been presented as the mechanic for Fighter and Paladin abilities. The objection is the use of the term prior to it being defined, which causes confusion.

I see your point. If that is what he meant, then I withdraw my objection.

 

[RefinedBean]

I see your point. If that is what he meant, then I withdraw my objection.

[bangs gavel] So ordered!

What's going to become a REAL headache is when the Bard is released in the PHB2. It has an at-will that marks a creature as if an ally had marked it themselves. It's good for ALL Defenders, but only Fighters will get all their free goodies from it.

However, we still don't know about the Warden, and whatever other Defenders are in the pipeline.

 

[CapnZapp]

I believe his point is that the the bonus effects that Defenders get when a creature is marked should be explained a little clearer as a secondary effect to the marked condition. In essence, it's not explained that "marked" is a condition anyone could apply until after it's already been presented as the mechanic for Fighter and Paladin abilities. The objection is the use of the term prior to it being defined, which causes confusion.

Thank you!

 

[DracoSuave]

Meh. All the powers in the game that assign conditions require you go to where the conditions are to understand them. The conditions are in the right place in the book (the Combat Section) and the powers are in the right place in the book (The classes section). Character creation -should- be the opening of the book.

There's no perfect way to have laid it all out. Every permutation has flaws.

 

[Nail]

There's no perfect way to have laid it all out. Every permutation has flaws.

True.

...but in this case, this particular condition causes this particular confusion far too often. I think this is because "marked" doesn't sound like a condition, unlike "stunned" or "immobilized".

I'm reminded of several threads over the last 6 months that are more or less like this: "I notice that kobold Dragonshields can mark opponents. Does that mean they get a basic melee attack on the marks that attack someone else? What does their mark do?"