Costs of Being Treated (My Ambulance Ride Cost Over $2,800)

Jan van Leyden

Adventurer
A quick search on the Internet indicates that the costs of an ambulance in the Netherlands, where I live, are around EUR 500-800 (USD 700-1100) for around 20 minutes' drive.

Ambulance rides are considered a public service in Germany, the costs of which are covered by your health insurance if there's a medical reason for it. The price is fixed by the local authorities, which (mostly) sets fixed prices. Wikipedia shows an example of some 150$, which is clearly not enough to cover the actual costs.

Edit: found the prices for my hometown: 200$ from 7 am to 10 pm, 400$ out of this time, for transports not leaving Münster.
 
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Scott DeWar

Prof. Emeritus-Supernatural Events/Countermeasure
Well, as an aside, My brother had tp finance me with loaned monies for when I was in the coma to the tune of $9000.00 in loans until I started my disability.
 

Elf Witch

First Post
Most ambulances services are either private or county/city run. The hospital has very little to do with what they charge. One reason accidents victims are encouraged to take an ambulance if they are hurt is that this helps if it comes time to make the car insurance injury protection pay for the care. Check your riders on car insurance many won't pay unless you are taken to the hospital straight from the accident via ambulance.

There are several reasons it costs so much those costs go to pay salaries and benefits to the paramedics, they have to maintain the equipment and stock the medical supplies. They treat regardless of ability to pay so the people who can't afford to pay or refuse to pay their costs gets passed on to the people who do pay.
 

JamesonCourage

Adventurer
The hospitals are the ones running the ambulance service? That's interesting. Mind if I ask where you live?
Central Valley in California. Like I said, I really have no idea, though. I was hoping someone else knew more.
Liability, maybe? They may be afraid that if they don't tell you something, and you are hurt worse than previously thought, you, or your family, might start tossing lawsuits around.
I get that, but I don't like it. If they think I'm hurt worse, then tell me that and make me take the ambulance. If they're just afraid of it, hitting me with a (totally unreasonable) $2,800 bill isn't my preference.
 

JamesonCourage

Adventurer
There are several reasons it costs so much those costs go to pay salaries and benefits to the paramedics, they have to maintain the equipment and stock the medical supplies. They treat regardless of ability to pay so the people who can't afford to pay or refuse to pay their costs gets passed on to the people who do pay.
Still, if they make three trips every two hours, that's over $4,000/hour. That seems like it's more than they need to cover those costs. Then again, I don't know how many trips they make each hour, how much supplies cost, etc. It should way more than cover their salary and benefits, though.

I'm still pretty influenced by that Times article, I think, which had a lot of stuff like this:
MD Anderson’s charge of $7 each for “ALCOHOL PREP PAD.” This is a little square of cotton used to apply alcohol to an injection. A box of 200 can be bought online for $1.91.
 

Scott DeWar

Prof. Emeritus-Supernatural Events/Countermeasure
When I had a catheter in me, there were special dressings that cost the VA some 50.00 each, but you can get them for about 16 bucks each.
 

Elf Witch

First Post
Still, if they make three trips every two hours, that's over $4,000/hour. That seems like it's more than they need to cover those costs. Then again, I don't know how many trips they make each hour, how much supplies cost, etc. It should way more than cover their salary and benefits, though.

I'm still pretty influenced by that Times article, I think, which had a lot of stuff like this:

From what I have read some emergency services run in the red and some in the black.

Hospitals over charge for everything. I used to work in the NICU and the formula we bought cost 3 times for a case than if you bought it at the store. The only difference was ours came with nipples attached. I know that they were a high theft item just like in the nursery diapers were always disappearing. I will tell one thing that I saw a lot of was out right fraud. One of the nurses brought her child in for stitches the doctor on duty had be charge the suture pack to a baby that was on medicaid.
 

Central Valley in California. Like I said, I really have no idea, though. I was hoping someone else knew more.
I think it may depend on the area you are in. For example, I'm in South Florida (what every other person outside of South Florida calls Miami... idiots). Here, in Miami Dade County, we have a county fire department, along with city departments for the various cities in the county. Not all cities have a fire department. Some of them are covered by the county. In any case, the firefighters are also the ones that serve as paramedics (they have to get certified by the county to be considered paramedics). If you get into a bad accident, a fire rescue unit shows up. You may get a fire truck, which has 4-6 firefighters in it. They are all trained in basic life support (BLS). You may have a couple that are trained in advanced life support (ALS). Depending on the number of ALS members, that unit might get ALS classification. The other trucks, the ones that people call ambulances, are all ALS units, and pretty much everyone in it is ALS certified. I think it's a four man unit, and at least three have to be ALS certified. There are also private ambulance companies. They are not affiliated with any hospitals, and they are usually only BLS certified.

So let's say you faint at home. The closest unit will always be dispatched to you. It may be a BLS classified unit. Depending on what the person that calls 911 says, you may get a second unit to show up, possibly a rescue unit. They will show up and check you out. Let's say they find that you are having a heart attack. The rescue unit, if it's there, will transport you. If there is no rescue unit, one gets dispatched to you. They show up, and hey transport you.

Now lets say that you faint at home, and the fie department shows up, and they determine that you are fine, and they don't need to transport you. What they usually do is tell you that they didn't find anything that requires immediate attention, and you can go to the hospital if you'd like, but they aren't going to transport you. They give you the options of having someone you know take you, or they can call for an ambulance. The ambulance is from a private company, and they are basically an overpriced taxi with the option of turning on emergency lights and running red lights for and additional $500.00+. The thing is, the ambulance at least has the equipment to monitor you while you are on the way to the hospital. At least a basic monitoring.

Funny enough, or not funny at all, if you do have something happen to you while on the way to the hospital in an ambulance, and it's a BLS ambulance, the ambulance will pull over and call fire rescue. They will do their best to stabilize you until the rescue unit shows up and moves you to their unit for transport. At that point, you get charged by both the county and the private ambulance company for the transport.

In most cases, the ALS units are county/city units. Private companies only have BLS units, for the most part. There is one are in the city of Miami, that has no city rescue unit (ALS), and because of politics, and the fees generated for services, they don't allow the county to service that area. They ended up contracting a private company to provide them with a private ambulance unit, which is owned by the private company, but is actually manned by city firefighters, except for the driver, I think. If I'm not mistaken, the driver is an employee of the ambulance company.

I get that, but I don't like it. If they think I'm hurt worse, then tell me that and make me take the ambulance. If they're just afraid of it, hitting me with a (totally unreasonable) $2,800 bill isn't my preference.
Well that's the thing, you may be asymptomatic. They just aren't sure if you do have something that is wrong with you. If you don't like that they tell you to go and bill you $2,800 when they are not sure if you are hurt or not, imagine how you would feel when they tell you that you definitely have to go, bill you $2,800 and it turns out there was nothing wrong with you.
 

JamesonCourage

Adventurer
Thanks for such a thorough reply. I appreciate it.
They give you the options of having someone you know take you, or they can call for an ambulance. The ambulance is from a private company, and they are basically an overpriced taxi with the option of turning on emergency lights and running red lights for and additional $500.00+. The thing is, the ambulance at least has the equipment to monitor you while you are on the way to the hospital. At least a basic monitoring.
All I got in the ambulance was my blood pressure taken (twice), and a few basic questions asked (that they also asked at the scene: my name, what hurt, etc.).
Well that's the thing, you may be asymptomatic. They just aren't sure if you do have something that is wrong with you.
That's what they said. "It could be something worse than what we can tell / how you feel. Probably best just to get checked out and be safe." Again, though, I'm not sure why a taxi / getting a ride from a friend wouldn't have worked here.
If you don't like that they tell you to go and bill you $2,800 when they are not sure if you are hurt or not, imagine how you would feel when they tell you that you definitely have to go, bill you $2,800 and it turns out there was nothing wrong with you.
I'd be angry, yeah. Either way, I'm not paying the bill (and it seems like it's been dealt with... no more calls directed at me), but it's definitely a button for me. But a lot of health care costs are a button for me. I don't want to get into politics, though, so I'll leave it at that for now.
 

Thanks for such a thorough reply. I appreciate it.
That'll be $150.00.
All I got in the ambulance was my blood pressure taken (twice), and a few basic questions asked (that they also asked at the scene: my name, what hurt, etc.).
[/quote]They didn't do an EKG? The fire department here has portable machines that they hook you up to when they transport you. It may also depend on the size of the department and the funding resources they have. I'm not sure if the private BLS ambulances have the EKG machines, though.
That's what they said. "It could be something worse than what we can tell / how you feel. Probably best just to get checked out and be safe." Again, though, I'm not sure why a taxi / getting a ride from a friend wouldn't have worked here.
Well, they taxi driver couldn't monitor your vitals while enroute. If there is a change, the trained personnel on the unit are able to start treatment before the situation becomes worse. Imagine you're on your way to the hospital in a taxi and start having a heart attack. The taxi driver isn't going to know what to do. Additionally, the taxi doesn't have the lights and sirens and emergency vehicle designation to speed through red lights. The taxi driver, if he even notices you having problems in the backseat, has to weigh speeding through a red light, possibly getting into an accident because other cars won't treat it like an emergency vehicle, and possibly get a ticket if there are traffic cameras or getting you to a hospital in time. Would you trust a taxi driver to get you to the emergency room quickly and safely in that kind of situation?
I'd be angry, yeah. Either way, I'm not paying the bill (and it seems like it's been dealt with... no more calls directed at me), but it's definitely a button for me. But a lot of health care costs are a button for me. I don't want to get into politics, though, so I'll leave it at that for now.
Sometimes companies in the healthcare field do what's called balance billing. They bill the insurance, the insurance company pays, and then they bill you. Sometimes it's a mistake, sometime it's not. There are companies that hope that you would be intimidated by a collection agency threatening to ruin your credit for a few dollars, and pay the bill. In the state of Florida it's illegal, and I'm guessing it's illegal in other states, but who knows.
 

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