Could Fox's Cunning Make an informant Out of Someone Dumb?

[Trench]

I had a very interesting question from a player in a PbP game I run.

The situation is this. The character has captured a bugbear enforcer in a local crime guild. His desire is to use the bugbear as an informant in the organization, but there are two drawbacks. 1- The bugbear has a drug addiction and 2- the bugbear isn't very smart. Which led to this question.

If you take a Fox's Cunning potion and begin to have all these thoughts that are way more intelligent than your character usually is, what is your memory of those thoughts?

If someone asks you to do something fairly complex under the effects of the potion, and you fully understand it then, but then later the potion wears off, do you cease to understand the request? Or just fumble in its execution, because you are stupid? At any rate, i'm wondering if it'll just make communication easier with Masher for the time being. That's an expensive way to go about it, though. And he may be so dumb it doesn't make that much difference. Hm.

So what does everyone here think?

 

[Loren Pechtel]

I would say it fails.

 

[Ahnehnois]

An interesting question.

First, drug addiction is a problem that can be dealt with under the rules. That's easier.

As far as an intelligence increase, I question how much it would help. The informant's understanding of events would be limited by what his intelligence and state of mind was when he experienced them. Increasing his intelligence would not give him new information. Being under the influence might make the informant more coherent, but he doesn't learn new words or concepts during the 30 minute duration. I would rule that any new insights gained under an enhanced state persist afterwards. Ultimately, I guess the question is whether it's about communication with the party or about the bugbear's previous interactions with his organization and his comprehension thereof.

 

[Trench]

Yeah, the drug addiction isn't the issue- so much that it makes the bugbear a bit harder to communicate with until he gets his fix.

I think the player's intention is to cast the spell so that the bugbear understands what's being asked of him. That would certainly fit under the understanding persisting after the duration. It certainly wouldn't help while the bugbear was spying, but it would help in communicating to the creature what exactly he wants to be done.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

I would rule that any new insights gained under an enhanced state persist afterwards. Ultimately, I guess the question is whether it's about communication with the party or about the bugbear's previous interactions with his organization and his comprehension thereof.

It would certainly ease dealing with him. The party could get it's requests across much easier. The problem comes in carrying out the instructions in the future when he's dumb again. That's why I think it would fail.

 

[Ahnehnois]

If a plan is so complicated that his lower Int can't comprehend it, I'd tend to agree. However, I don't think +4 Int is quite that large a difference; If he can understand something with the spell and be reasonably eloquent and coherent about it, I think he would still be able to remember and understand the plan on a basic level after the spell wears off.

 

[Jeff Wilder]

Is the bugbear named Charlie?

I'd rule that you can't understand something now that you only understood then because you were smarter.

On the other hand, if you flip it around, I'd allow Charlie to understand past experiences better and more fully if currently smarter.

So fox's cunning is still useful as a tool for cultivating an informant, but useful in a different way.

 

[Jhaelen]

I'd rule that you can't understand something now that you only understood then because you were smarter.

Yep, I'd also recommend the short story/novel 'Flowers for Algernon' for some inspiration

 

[Ashtagon]

I'd say the higher Intelligence would let him sensibly recall anything that he would ordinarily have remembered from past events. However, since the drug addiction was active back then, that would probably have clouded his perception of things, making it hard for him to recall clearly. Specifics would depend on the exact nature of the addiction and whether.

As for giving him instructions, he'd intelligently understand those while the spell was in effect, but once it expires, his understanding of those instructions would be limited by his lower Intelligence.

 

[Corsair]

depends on what the base Int is. The difference between say, 3 and 7 int is much bigger than between 8 and 12, I feel. 8 and 12 are above average and below average, while 3 and 7 is the difference between "just barely sentient and able to understand language" and "18 year old reading at a 6th grade level"