D&D 5E Counterspell check ?

[DaveDash]

Edit: Nevermind I don't agree with what I just wrote.

 

[miniaturehoarder]

I thought you had a worthwhile point.

 

[miniaturehoarder]

Oh and is there anywhere where it is stated opposed casters get to know what you are casting?

 

[DaveDash]

Oh and is there anywhere where it is stated opposed casters get to know what you are casting?

Nope this is a grey area (yet another one!).

If the spell is on the players spell lists, I let them know. Otherwise they have to do a DC 10 + spell level Arcana or Religion check to figure it out.

My group did fail this check once and counter spelled a harmless magic mouth.

 

[Paraxis]

Oh and is there anywhere where it is stated opposed casters get to know what you are casting?

I think it is assumed as part of the narrative.

You don't counterspell before the fingers and words are done wiggling and being spoken you wait till the little red pea sized pellet of fire flies towards your allies, that is when you cast counterspell.

But if you want to incorporate some kind of 3e spellcraft aka Intelligence(Arcana) check to determine what spell is being cast that sounds reasonable, I just prefer to play 4e style where you announce what is happening in game mechanic terms, wait till dice roll or what have you and then describe the narrative.

 

[miniaturehoarder]

I think it is assumed as part of the narrative.

You don't counterspell before the fingers and words are done wiggling and being spoken you wait till the little red pea sized pellet of fire flies towards your allies, that is when you cast counterspell.

I think it's too late then. But that's just my reading of

A spell’s components are the physical requirements you must meet in order to cast it.

followed with

...which you take when you see a creature within 60 feet of you casting a spell

You attempt to interrupt a creature in the process of casting a spell.

 

[Eirikrautha]

Ehhhh. I can see both sides of the argument, but my take isn't so much based on RAW as on flavor. What is a counterspell? Is it a spell itself, or is it the negation of magical energy? The way I visualize it, a counterspell is the negation of the magical energy used to create the spell. So an attempt to counterspell a counterspell simply adds the negative to the negative. So, in my mind, the result is additive (so the negative gets more negative) rather than multplicative (where negative times negative equals a positive). It just doesn't make sense to me to have a counterspell of a counterspell result in the original spell working...

 

[PnPgamer]

Ehhhh. I can see both sides of the argument, but my take isn't so much based on RAW as on flavor. What is a counterspell? Is it a spell itself, or is it the negation of magical energy? The way I visualize it, a counterspell is the negation of the magical energy used to create the spell. So an attempt to counterspell a counterspell simply adds the negative to the negative. So, in my mind, the result is additive (so the negative gets more negative) rather than multplicative (where negative times negative equals a positive). It just doesn't make sense to me to have a counterspell of a counterspell result in the original spell working...

But isnt the point there that you counterspell opponents counterspell which counters your original spell that you casted?meaning that counterspell is a valid spell target for counterspell and thus the first counterspell would be negated by your counterspell and your original spell could proceed uninterrupted?

All we need is a picture of Xzibit and this is complete.

 

[Diamabel]

There are balance ramifications in allowing counterspell to counter a counterspell- Barring multiple friendly counterspellers, a BBEG should be able to force through whatever spell it wishes... which leaves it more open to PC spells by using it's reaction.. but it still has legendary resistance, etc. to mitigate the worst of this.

 

[Spykes]

There really is no grey area. You cannot cast Counterspell a Counterspell because you are concentrating on casting the first spell. To cast any spell, you must concentrate long enough to cast it. Even a spell that only requires a bonus action to cast, still requires enough concentration to get it cast. The Counterspell reaction interrupts that concentration. It's too late to counter at that point because the interruption has already happened. It's over. You were Counterspelled.

The key here is the trigger. Counterspell's trigger is, "you see a creature within 60 feet of you casting a spell." The trigger is not that someone HAS CAST a spell on you, but rather they are IN THE ACT of casting. You can't react to a reaction because you are concentrating on casting the original spell. By the time you get countered, it's over and done. There is nothing to react to. The trigger for the possible second Counterspell has already happened. You were interrupted, but you can't interrupt a reaction if you are concentrating on casting. This is the reason why you can't have two concentration spells gong at the same time. You can only concentrate on one at a time. Casting a spell requires that minimum concentration to get it off, albeit only one action or bonus action's worth of concentration.

Even if you were watching two casters, you could not counterspell a counterspell because the reaction cast happens too fast. It's the same with Shield. You can't Counterspell a Shield spell because it's a reaction. By the time you see the spell being cast, it's over.