Coup de Grace broken?

[Tom McCafferty]

I am sorry to say, but the last thread seems to have wandered off into a debate on alignment.

The CDG rule I feel need some sort of tweaking.

Should a druid transformed into the shape of a rat be able to CDG the sleeping king, who has ordered the peasants to clear the forest, by biting his neck?

If so then no one is safe without the alarm spell, and even then they would never get to sleep in a wilderness environment. The rule as it is sucks.

Yes it can be played both ways, but how would you feel if your favorite PC was offed by a gnat in the middle of the night.

Everyone would take to playing elves or non magic users, because the don't have to sleep.

Any ideas on how to change it to avoid the stupid amount of damage delt, the automatic critical or the impossible save?

 

[Hypersmurf]

Should a druid transformed into the shape of a rat be able to CDG the sleeping king, who has ordered the peasants to clear the forest, by biting his neck?

Is he an evil druid?

-Hyp.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Sorry

But "How should I change this rule?" questions usually get a better response in the House Rules Forum...

-Hyp.

 

[hong]

The CDG rule I feel need some sort of tweaking.

A pity that nobody else does.

Well, no, I tell a lie. ALL my clones are agreed that CdG is broken, possibly because I keep using it on them to shut them up when they start making noise. Which, concidentally, is why you can't hear them, because if they made noise, I'd CdG them. But just because they're not saying anything doesn't mean they're not there!


Hong "noisiest clone on EN World" Ooi

 

[FireLance]

The CDG rule looks fine to me. Look at it from the other perspective: a high-level barbarian with 100 hit points is about to be executed by a guy with 18 Strength and a greataxe. After spending one round lining up an attack, he rolls very well and does his maximum damage of (12 + 6) x 3 = 54 points of damage. Unfortunately, he hasn't cut off his head because the barbarian still has 46 hp left.

To me, that is an equally silly situation.

If you think the save DC is too high, make it DC damage dealt or DC half damage dealt, whatever you feel is right.

 

[Pax]

If so then no one is safe without the alarm spell, and even then they would never get to sleep in a wilderness environment. The rule as it is sucks.

As I told you multiple times in the other thread -- it's not the CDG rule that's a problem. It's your lack of proper watches, or other preparatory measures, that causes CDG to be a risk.

Druid Wildshaped to a rat?

Fine, rat bites do, what -- maybe 2 points, on a critical? Fortitude save DC17 ... either that's not a difficult save, or, the target would've been a pushover ANYway.

Yes it can be played both ways, but how would you feel if your favorite PC was offed by a gnat in the middle of the night.

Since a gnat cannot do even 1hp of damage, I'm not worried.

 

[Drawmack]

I am sorry to say, but the last thread seems to have wandered off into a debate on alignment.

Since you didn't feel the need - let's take a look at the rule.

Coup de grace
[Full][AoO: Yes]

Description: A character can use a melee weapon to deliver a coup de grace to a helpless foe. A character can also use a bow or crossbow, provided the character is adjacent to the target. The attacker automatically hits and scores a critical hit. If the target survives the damage, the target must make a Fortitude save (DC 10 + damage dealt) or die.

It's overkill, but a rogue also gets her extra sneak attack damage against a helpless foe when delivering a coup de grace.

A character can't deliver a coup de grace against an opponent that is immune to critical hits, such as a golem.

Should a druid transformed into the shape of a rat be able to CDG the sleeping king, who has ordered the peasants to clear the forest, by biting his neck?

1) If you lived in a world where people who protected the wilds had this type of power and you ordered a forest cleared would you sleep in a room without a guard sitting next to your bed?
2) It does say a melee weapon, I would rule that this means non-natural attack, but that is house rule so I won't go there.
3) The attacker automatically hits, and scores a critical hit. Okay so what's the ciritcal on a bat's bite? Oh look at that a bat has no attackes, guess a bat can't coupe de gras after all.

If so then no one is safe without the alarm spell, and even then they would never get to sleep in a wilderness environment. The rule as it is sucks.

You are using a very loose interpretation of the rule and it's interaction with other rules.

Yes it can be played both ways, but how would you feel if your favorite PC was offed by a gnat in the middle of the night.

A gnat? c'mon - look at the save, desides a gnat does no damage.

First of all this should really be in house rules. Secondly, I have been dming 3e for 2 years now and I've only seen a cdg used twice and once was by me.

In your old thread you were told multiple times, by multiple people that the way you used the rule was in error, and yet here you are again without giving the set up, hoping to rally the troops of the uninformed again.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Re: Re: Coup de Grace broken?

3) The attacker automatically hits, and scores a critical hit. Okay so what's the ciritcal on a bat's bite? Oh look at that a bat has no attackes, guess a bat can't coupe de gras after all.

Rrrr-rat. With an R. Damage: 1d3-4.

2 damage on a critical.

DC12 Fort save.

-Hyp.

 

[Olive]

note wanting to be nasty, but this thread should be closed, or you should ask the mods to close your other thread. they don't like simultaneous threads on the same topic, especially wen a poster starts a new thread because he didn't get the answer he wanted the first time round.

CdG is still fine...

 

[Piratecat]

Already done, Olive. Please keep this thread on topic, everyone!