coup de grace too powerful

[Xarlen]

Hold Person isn't very unbalancing.

In mid to higher levels, Saving throws will often prove the Hold Person's undoing. The DC's don't raise that high, because it's 2nd level.

In lower levels, Sleep does just about the same thing. Drop a sleep, CDG. Boom.

The only time Hold Person is really nasty is when something's flying.

 

[kreynolds]

One last debate for kreynolds

Ah. I see it now.

AoO is not enough.

Yes it is. Granted, it is harder, but it should be.

An AoO and the ability to go through with the action is much more powerful than an AoO and loosing the action.

That's why when someone goes to CdG your friend, you don't just use your AoO to smack them. You use it to trip, disarm, or bull-rush. That stops the CdG in all 3 cases.

Trip: They're on they're butt.
Disarm: They don't have a weapon to hit your friend with.
Bull-Rush: They're now out of range of your friend.

 

[Ridley's Cohort]

Also I have a problem with a 2nd level spell guaranteeing someone's death is not what I call balanced.

It would be a problem if the game were based on one-on-one gladitorial combat.

A lot of things in D&D do not make much sense balance-wise unless you presume good teamwork and a bit of dungeon crawling. That is how the game is designed. Hold Person is rarely a problem if you play with that in mind.

Casting Hold Person and then not actively protecting you was asking for trouble. It is too bad that you had to pay the price for that mistake.

 

[Dreaddisease]

Add in the 5 foot step.

In a normal combat how many times can you take a 5 foot step and single out an opponent (i.e. only that opponent can reach you). It is too easy and too common in most of the campaigns I play in. To add this benefit to the Coup De Grace gives it more power than it should have.

I was arguing with a friend of mine about full round actions(other than the full attack option) and how it forces everybody to stop what they are doing for 6 seconds when they occur. Let us say that a combat started with the nmy on the first initiative and the cleric on the last initiative andhe decides to cast Antilife shell because the monsters that were within the area are now outside the area of effect, so on his intiative he casts the spell. (Great) But it is a full round action. So did the nmy just wait a full extra round before acting so that the Cleric could cast the spell in the first round. A full Round Action should be put in a special catagory where the action comes as a free action at the beginning of the next round if nothing prevents the action from occuring.

 

[0-hr]

Does it say anything in the rules about not being able to CdG while prone? I'm not seeing where a trip would help you out. Now a grapple, sure...

BTW, we play CdG as a full round action (like casting a Summoning spell) as a house rule. It makes for some very dramatic situations and also lets the DM play the bad guys as smart and mean as they should be.

 

[Staldin*Freefall]

I've always played it as occurring after the full round, thus giving friends plenty of capability to interrupt while in battle and for innocents in bed to be slaughtered just as easily. It always made the most sense to me.

 

[kreynolds]

Does it say anything in the rules about not being able to CdG while prone?

No, but he would suffer the -4 penalty to the attack roll, unless he has the Prone Attack feat.

It helps more than simply smacking someone upside the head, especially when you have no idea how many hit points they have left, as killing them with a single blow is the only way this tactic would be worthwhile, and the only way you would prevent the CdG on your friend. A successful Disarm and Bull-rush would completely prevent the CdG though, and the CdG can't be redirected at you because you're not helpless.

EDIT: Uhm. I recognize how stupid this post is. Ignore it. Thank RigaMortus for pointing it out.

 

[Cl1mh4224rd]

I was arguing with a friend of mine about full round actions(other than the full attack option) and how it forces everybody to stop what they are doing for 6 seconds when they occur. Let us say that a combat started with the nmy on the first initiative and the cleric on the last initiative andhe decides to cast Antilife shell because the monsters that were within the area are now outside the area of effect, so on his intiative he casts the spell. (Great) But it is a full round action. So did the nmy just wait a full extra round before acting so that the Cleric could cast the spell in the first round. A full Round Action should be put in a special catagory where the action comes as a free action at the beginning of the next round if nothing prevents the action from occuring.

umm.... the casting time of antilife shell is "1 full round". a spell with a "1 full round" casting time does not come into effect until just before the caster's initiative on the next round. the caster's opponents all get a chance to interrupt the spell before it goes off...

 

[RigaMortus]

Trip: They're on they're butt.
Disarm: They don't have a weapon to hit your friend with.
Bull-Rush: They're now out of range of your friend.

Since when can you not CDG someone if you are prone? Also, if you lose your weapon, why can't you CDG with an unarmed attack? Sure you might not get AS much damage as your weapon, but you are still looking at a Fort save or die.

The only one here that would guarantee they are safe is a successful bull rush.

 

[RigaMortus]

No, but he would suffer the -4 penalty to the attack roll, unless he has the Prone Attack feat.

Considering that when you perform a CDG you "automatically hit and score a critical" I fail to see what a -4 penalty will effect.