Couple a' tricky ?s for ya

[kyrand]

Rolling up a character for the first time in a while (since I usually DM), so I need a couple of rules clarifications from you experts so I don't make my DM have to call everything at a snap judgement

I know wearing a pair of bracers of armor along with magical armor only gives you the armor bonus of the greater one. But what if a character is wearing, say, bracers +5 and a +1 chain shirt of silent moves or something. Do the properties of the armor still apply, even if its AC bonus doesn't?

I remember seeing a bit of debate about this one. Can a character enchant a set of clothes as though it were magical armor? Say, for example, a +3 adventurer's outfit of fire resistance? If so, does this affect the answer to the question above?

Can a character with the Combat Expertise feat use it when making the attack roll to use the aid another special attack? In the same vein, could this character use the feat when attempting a trip, disarm, sunder, grapple, etc.?

I may have more questions as I look into my options, but these are the ones I've found so far.

 

[darthkilmor]

I know wearing a pair of bracers of armor along with magical armor only gives you the armor bonus of the greater one. But what if a character is wearing, say, bracers +5 and a +1 chain shirt of silent moves or something. Do the properties of the armor still apply, even if its AC bonus doesn't?

I remember seeing a bit of debate about this one. Can a character enchant a set of clothes as though it were magical armor? Say, for example, a +3 adventurer's outfit of fire resistance? If so, does this affect the answer to the question above?

It doesnt even need to be magical armor as far as I know. This is basically the "same-named bonuses don't stack". So your +5 armor bonuses don't stack, but no reason the silent moves shouldnt work.

I let my players enchant Robes, so for instance the Wizard wears +1 robes. I can't give you a RAW answer, but I can't think of what would be game-breaking about it. You could also just get some armor glamoured. I don't think you'll get away with wearing a set of clothes enchanted with an armor bonus/ability AND armor enchanted with an armor bonus/ability. Unless your DM isnt playing attention

 

[jaelis]

Yes, special abilities all stack even if the armor bonuses don't.

No, you can only enchant actual armor and clothes are not armor.

CE only works when you use the attack or full attack actions, and aiding another is not one of those. Trips etc are, so they would be no problem.

 

[Aidan Milvus]

As the others have said, special abilities would stack in your example.
The only way I know of to enchant clothing is using the Magic Vestment spell. Of course, crafting custom magic items is and has always been up to the dm. If the dm would rule that a very well made set of clothing could be considered masterwork and would be enchantable as armor, that's his call. We were actually discussing this very topic in my group Monday night, and all thought that a leather apron +1 of fire resistance would be really cool for blacksmiths or cooks.
This is an interesting question. My first thought was yes. You are making an attack roll vs AC 10 to aid your ally. Feats like Weapon focus would help in this attack roll, as would magical enchantments on the weapon you're using. But Aid another does call for an attack roll, so if you want to take a penalty on this attack by using a feat. Of course, CE specifies Attack action or Full attack action and jaelis is right in that Aid Another is a standard action that happens to require an attack roll... Which leads me to side with jaelis. *sigh*

Ok, just looked up the FAQ on CE, and WotC says: "Anything described as an attack roll (even an opposed attack roll) can be affected by Combat Expertise or Power Attack. "
So I'm going to go with my original though "Yes"

 

[Infiniti2000]

Yes, special abilities all stack even if the armor bonuses don't.

No, you can only enchant actual armor and clothes are not armor.

CE only works when you use the attack or full attack actions, and aiding another is not one of those. Trips etc are, so they would be no problem.

I agree with the above per the rules. For 2, however, I think I heard the Arms & Equipment has rules for enhancing clothes and/or bracers as you would normal armor. I'd recommend you check that out. As for 3, I don't agree with the FAQ's interpretation as posted above, but for aid another I really don't think it would create a problem for the game to allow it.

 

[VanRichten]

The silent moves would count even though the armor bonus would not stack.

A set of clothing could be looked at as armor. Considering it has a Armor Bonus of +0.

I am gonna go with what WotC says. I don't see why you couldn't use CE for such an effect. Just that it would lower your chances of giving the bonus. Though why you would want to do this I don't know, but I wouldn't see a problem with it.

 

[jaelis]

Ok, just looked up the FAQ on CE, and WotC says: "Anything described as an attack roll (even an opposed attack roll) can be affected by Combat Expertise or Power Attack. "
So I'm going to go with my original though "Yes"

You interpret the FAQ differently from me. It says in full

When using Combat Expertise or Power Attack, does the penalty you take also apply to opposed attack rolls (such as when you are involved in a disarm or sunder attempt)? What about on grapple checks?

Yes and no. Anything described as an attack roll (even an opposed attack roll) can be affected by Combat Expertise or Power Attack. A grapple check isn’t an attack roll, so you can’t use Combat Expertise or Power Attack in conjunction with it.

I think that is saying that the penalty for power attack and combat expertise applies to anything called an attack roll. And the roll in Aid Another is an attack roll, so the penalty would apply (if you were somehow able to use both in the same round).

But that doesn't change the fact that the CE feat says "When you use the attack action or the full attack action in melee..." and the Aid Another action is not either of those. (Even though it does involve an attack roll.) The FAQ doesn't say anything that I can see to change that.

For another example, a wizard couldn't use CE when casting a scorching ray or shocking grasp spell, even though they involve an attack roll too.

 

[Av3rnus]

I agree with the above per the rules. For 2, however, I think I heard the Arms & Equipment has rules for enhancing clothes and/or bracers as you would normal armor. I'd recommend you check that out.

The Magic Item Compendium has a page towards the back which includes alternative body slots for some of the common magic item effects. I don't have it in front of me, but I believe the actual Body slot (used by armor and robes) is valid for an AC enhancement bonus. So a +1 robe (or tunic, or whatever) should be legal, although it will need to use that Body slot and I'm pretty sure you won't be able to add any special armor enhancements (like Silent Moves) to it.

 

[Jhaelen]

Regarding the following questions come to my mind:
Are there masterwork robes and if so, what do they cost? What about armor crystals? Can I put one of those into a (masterwork) robe? What feat is used to enchant a robe in this way?

According to the MIC you can enchant items occupying the arms or body slot with an armor bonus to AC assuming the item doesn't also provide a nonmagical armor bonus to AC. Other effects can be added to them without the 50% markup.

So robes of armor would be treated exactly like bracers of armor. I.e.
- they don't count as armor, which is fine for monks, but neither can they be enchanted with armor properties nor can armor crystals be put into them.
- they are enchanted using the Craft Wondrous Item feat.

 

[VanRichten]

I'm pretty sure you won't be able to add any special armor enhancements (like Silent Moves) to it.

That is true. But it isn't like you couldn't make such an item. And just pay it straight out like you would if you made a magical ninja outfit. That would give you a bonus to Move Silently and a bonus to AC. It would effectively be a Body Slot idea a long with that mentality.