Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
The
VOIDRUNNER'S CODEX
is coming! Explore new worlds, fight oppressive empires, fend off fearsome aliens, and wield deadly psionics with this comprehensive boxed set expansion for 5E and A5E!
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
CR 13 dragon beaten by level 7 party observations
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Sacrosanct" data-source="post: 6454624" data-attributes="member: 15700"><p>Last night we were playing a sort of arena-style session. We were in a giant tower, and you had to beat a challenge on the current floor and move up to the next floor, etc. So not really your typical session. In the final battle we did, we were all 7th level and we were in a huge room that was the lair of an adult white dragon. We were able to beat it without anyone dropping (although several of us were down pretty low).</p><p></p><p>Our party: </p><p>halfling battlemaster fighter</p><p>half elf eldritch knight</p><p>human eldritch knight</p><p>dwarven cleric of light</p><p>half elf elemental monk</p><p></p><p>All 7th level. We were all spread out and not grouped up in it's lair, which mitigated any AoE attacks. We were in its lair, so it did use lair actions. Now, your first impression might be like mine and think, "Wait, a 7th level party should be wiped out by an adult white dragon." And I agree. I think normally it would have. I've thought about the following reasons why we were able to beat it:</p><p></p><p>* we know there was going to be a "boss" fight, but we didn't know what kind. So we were able to prep before entering the portal</p><p>* our prepping included some magic items that a 7th level party might not have. the battlemaster (me) took a potion of fire giant strength and on the first round before combat actually started I took a potion of speed. The 1/2 elf E. knight took a potion of invulnerability. The monk took a potion of stone giant strength. We were all at max resources.</p><p>* we positioned ourselves behind cover before the cleric launched a fireball into an ajoining chamber where we thought the dragon was, which lured it out, causing me to get an AoO on it.</p><p>* we totally blew our load on the first round. Which meant as the battlemaster, I blew through all my superiority dice in the first round (I had 5 attacks that round: 2 normally +1 haste +2 more from action surge), and they were all at +10 to hit and +8 damage (from potion). I was using goading strike and distracting strike. The DM ruled that since white dragons aren't that smart, it used its legendary resistance 3 times in a row on 3 failed saves in a row (DM rolled its saves poorly) rather than save LR for a big spell.</p><p>* by the end of round 1 of actual combat, between my 5 attacks at 2d8+8 each (superiority dice added) and the monk's 4 attacks at 1d6+7 each and the fireball slinging cleric, we had it down to half health or so.</p><p>* it didn't really have a lot of room to fly</p><p></p><p>So I think the battle we did was an exception, rather than the rule, and normally we would have failed. But what it did do is reinforce an observation I have had for a while now.</p><p></p><p>That is: Single high CR monsters aren't nearly as challenging as many low CR monsters. I.e., if you use the encounter designed rules, a deadly encounter with one higher CR monster will not be as tough as a deadly encounter made up from several lower CR monsters. Technically they are both deadly encounters, but in actual play, when you've got many creatures to worry about, it seems a lot harder than one single creature you can all focus on. I think it's because that one high CR monster just has to fail a save once for something like goading strike or hold person or likewise, and the entire battle is turned. While against multiple lower CR opponents, having one of them fail a save doesn't affect any of the others, and something like goading strike has less effect.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Sacrosanct, post: 6454624, member: 15700"] Last night we were playing a sort of arena-style session. We were in a giant tower, and you had to beat a challenge on the current floor and move up to the next floor, etc. So not really your typical session. In the final battle we did, we were all 7th level and we were in a huge room that was the lair of an adult white dragon. We were able to beat it without anyone dropping (although several of us were down pretty low). Our party: halfling battlemaster fighter half elf eldritch knight human eldritch knight dwarven cleric of light half elf elemental monk All 7th level. We were all spread out and not grouped up in it's lair, which mitigated any AoE attacks. We were in its lair, so it did use lair actions. Now, your first impression might be like mine and think, "Wait, a 7th level party should be wiped out by an adult white dragon." And I agree. I think normally it would have. I've thought about the following reasons why we were able to beat it: * we know there was going to be a "boss" fight, but we didn't know what kind. So we were able to prep before entering the portal * our prepping included some magic items that a 7th level party might not have. the battlemaster (me) took a potion of fire giant strength and on the first round before combat actually started I took a potion of speed. The 1/2 elf E. knight took a potion of invulnerability. The monk took a potion of stone giant strength. We were all at max resources. * we positioned ourselves behind cover before the cleric launched a fireball into an ajoining chamber where we thought the dragon was, which lured it out, causing me to get an AoO on it. * we totally blew our load on the first round. Which meant as the battlemaster, I blew through all my superiority dice in the first round (I had 5 attacks that round: 2 normally +1 haste +2 more from action surge), and they were all at +10 to hit and +8 damage (from potion). I was using goading strike and distracting strike. The DM ruled that since white dragons aren't that smart, it used its legendary resistance 3 times in a row on 3 failed saves in a row (DM rolled its saves poorly) rather than save LR for a big spell. * by the end of round 1 of actual combat, between my 5 attacks at 2d8+8 each (superiority dice added) and the monk's 4 attacks at 1d6+7 each and the fireball slinging cleric, we had it down to half health or so. * it didn't really have a lot of room to fly So I think the battle we did was an exception, rather than the rule, and normally we would have failed. But what it did do is reinforce an observation I have had for a while now. That is: Single high CR monsters aren't nearly as challenging as many low CR monsters. I.e., if you use the encounter designed rules, a deadly encounter with one higher CR monster will not be as tough as a deadly encounter made up from several lower CR monsters. Technically they are both deadly encounters, but in actual play, when you've got many creatures to worry about, it seems a lot harder than one single creature you can all focus on. I think it's because that one high CR monster just has to fail a save once for something like goading strike or hold person or likewise, and the entire battle is turned. While against multiple lower CR opponents, having one of them fail a save doesn't affect any of the others, and something like goading strike has less effect. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
CR 13 dragon beaten by level 7 party observations
Top