D&D 5E CR of LMoP Encounters - Spoiler of side quests

[SilverBulletKY]

I was looking to adjust some of the encounters as this Saturday I will have 4 level 3 players. In looking at the Old Owl Well and Wvyern Tor quests, if you actually calculate the CR of those, both would be way beyond deadly for even a group of 5. 1 ogre and 6 orcs in one encounter which equates to 2,625 CR and 1 evil mage and 12 zombies in another which equates to 2,400 CR. This would be much higher than deadly, even for a group of 5 level 4 players. It's the group multiplier that really makes it that high. Granted, the orcs flee if their leader is killed and you can get away with no combat at all with the mage and zombies but some groups aren't built for diplomacy.

 

[GX.Sigma]

Good.

 

[Croesus]

In looking at the Old Owl Well and Wvyern Tor quests, if you actually calculate the CR of those, both would be way beyond deadly for even a group of 5. 1 ogre and 6 orcs in one encounter which equates to 2,625 CR...It's the group multiplier that really makes it that high. Granted, the orcs flee if their leader is killed...

Yeah, I ran this encounter for my group of four PCs and they barely survived, mostly through luck. I did break the encounter into two parts, having them first encounter half the orcs separately, but the PC wizard blew all of his first level spells against the few orcs, then they hung around until the others showed up, with the ogre. At that point, it was too late to run and they only survived because the ogre missed almost all his attacks. The good news is the players have learned from their experiences and are using much better tactics now.

 

[jayoungr]

What level were your PCs at the time?

Mine had an easy time at Old Owl Well because the cleric turned half the zombies.

At Wyvern Tor, they managed to lure out just the leader and his ogre buddy; once they were killed, the other orcs fled.

 

[Anth]

My experience is that deadly encounter isn't very deadly if the characters are prepared, careful, and don't act stupid.

I've "spiced up" almost all encounters in LMoP to about double the deadly encounter level and so far I haven't had any PC-deaths.
Of course my players know my DM-style and play accordingly.

Just tell the players that there will be a tough session.

 

[Croesus]

What level were your PCs at the time?

I believe they had just made 3rd level before taking on the Wyvern Tor encounter. We're using the LMoP to learn the system and I have no doubt they wouldn't make the same mistakes now, but at the time, I really thought I'd have a TPK on my hands. I love 5E, but it's pretty swingy at times, so the first thing I added from the DMG is hero points - this gives the players a bit of control when the dice aren't cooperating.

 

[DaveDash]

I've seen groups online breeze through these encounters, but these have been experienced groups.

The encounters where I have seen deaths are the first Goblin encounter, Klarg, and Venomfang.

 

[Croesus]

I've seen groups online breeze through these encounters, but these have been experienced groups.

The encounters where I have seen deaths are the first Goblin encounter, Klarg, and Venomfang.

Yeah, the PC's blew their first encounter with Klarg. Three PC's down, the last one negotiated to save their lives. (The PC brought Klarg the supplies that the PC's were supposed to escort to Phandalin. Klarg released the three captive PC's). The party promptly rested overnight, came back, killed him and took their stuff back.

Most battles have seen at least one PC go down, though none have died (yet). The cleric had to use of Spare the Dying several times. I'm still unsure how much of this is due to the deadliness of the system at low levels and how much is due to the players learning the system. Now that they are 4th level, they are doing much better, though one PC did go down during the big fight in Cragmaw Castle.

 

[DaveDash]

Yeah, the PC's blew their first encounter with Klarg. Three PC's down, the last one negotiated to save their lives. (The PC brought Klarg the supplies that the PC's were supposed to escort to Phandalin. Klarg released the three captive PC's). The party promptly rested overnight, came back, killed him and took their stuff back.

Most battles have seen at least one PC go down, though none have died (yet). The cleric had to use of Spare the Dying several times. I'm still unsure how much of this is due to the deadliness of the system at low levels and how much is due to the players learning the system. Now that they are 4th level, they are doing much better, though one PC did go down during the big fight in Cragmaw Castle.

With Klarg it is due to deadliness at low levels. If Klarg get's a good damage roll for example, he CAN kill a PC outright. Basically nothing they can do. The way the module is designed as well, it's hard to isolate Klarg and take him down at range.

This danger zone is basically level 1-2. Once you hit level 3, you generally have enough hit points to survive being one-shotted.

If everyone in your group picks dark vision races and you have a Wizard or Warlock with a familiar along for the ride, you can make life much easier with clever scouting. Draw them out and ambush them. My group in which I am a player basically pilfered longbows (going through Horde of the Dragon Queen) and shot everything from 150ft range for the first couple of levels.
It was very satisfying when my Dwarven War Cleric shot a Kobold between the eyes from 150ft away (natural 20), he showed the Wood Elf Rogue how it's done.

 

[Cernor]

In my last session our party (two 4th-level characters) got ambushed by a Wight and 10 zombies (effective XP 4800) but still managed to come out on top without either of us dropping below 10HP... Despite the ranger being able to see precisely nothing because he doesn't have darkvision. The given CR difficulty is only a guideline, don't take it as the final word of what your party can handle, just a rough guideline of when your PCs may get overwhelmed.