Craft/Profession

[Shroomy]

For those who have access to the core rulebooks, are there any types of general rules or trained skill uses that incorporate some or all of the rules that once fell under Craft or Profession?

 

[Urklore]

None

We got the same response that we got when they removed them from Star Wars Saga Edition.

Profession and Craft skills are not heroic so they were removed from the system. The focus now is what new and exciting power you get at each level and what you can contribute to in a combat.

Lame, lame, and more lame.

 

[keterys]

As far as I know, you are free to give yourself the ability to craft or profess* anything you want. I think my dwarf fighter will be a brewer and no lack of skill points will stop me.

*

 

[Fallen Seraph]

You should look at this comment by Mearls on the subject: http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=1037843

[sblock=First Post By Mearls]

In the design of 4e, we tried to eliminate skills that promised a lot, but didn't necessarily deliver. The craft and profession skills fell into this category.

First, they require more rules than we wanted to devote to them. It's hard to make sensible rules for all the various types of crafting you can attempt. For example, what stat should a craft (blacksmithing) depend on? Dwarves are supposed to be great smiths, so should it be Wisdom or Con? On the other hand, logic dictates that Strength should likely play a role in it. Profession skills that cover things like sailing also make things hard. What does a check actually cover? If I'm on a ship caught in a storm, can I use Profession (sailor) or Acrobatics to stay on my feet?

Second, a skill like Profession is hard to use in the game from the the designer's point of view. In a home campaign, you know what the PCs took, but in writing modules it's impossible to use the skills without relying on blind luck that someone took Profession or Craft, and then happened to pick the right specialty.

Stuff like sailor and blacksmithing is now treated as a character background, something a player includes in his character's backstory. Page 11 of the DMG talks about how to work those into an adventure.

IMC, I use them as the basis for ability checks. So, a character trained as a blacksmith might notice how a lead war maul was made with an Intelligence check, and he can hammer a bent key back into working shape with a forge and a Strength check.

The design intent is to push backgrounds into the DM's hands, letting him make them as useful or as invisible as he wants. We prefered that approach rather than trying to come up with comprehensive mechanics to cover them. In the end, we judged that the added complexity wasn't worth it.

[/sblock]

[sblock=Second]

Ninja'd!

To go a little more into what I talked about before, three of the past six sessions in my current lunch time campaign have had zero combat.

One was a puzzle the PCs had to solve to pass through a forest warded by powerful fey magic.

In the other two, the PCs had to talk their way past their patron and his eeeevil boss (they didn't know they guy was evil with 4 e's bad when they took a job from him.

In the next session, the PCs talk to the commander of the town guard, won his trust, and even earned a comission as captain of the guard for one PC.

In the dungeon the PCs are currently exploring, I've sketched out an encounter with an undead bard and an audience of ghosts. If the PCs beat the bard in an insult contest, the audience and the bard can help them figure out what happened in the dungeon decades ago (it was once a wizards' stronghold; the mages are all dead, and no one knows what happened to them.)

As DM, I'm using a combo of a skill challenge (social skills and such) and my own judgment of the insults the players can come up with. If a PC had a background as a performer, I'd give them a bonus or some other advantage in working the crowd.

[/sblock]

[sblock=Third]

There are a few examples, such as a character with a blacksmith background figuring out how a lock was made, or using his knowledge to help a Diplomacy check when dealing with a weaponsmith.

[/sblock]

 

[Lizard]

As far as I know, you are free to give yourself the ability to craft or profess* anything you want. I think my dwarf fighter will be a brewer and no lack of skill points will stop me.

*

Cool.

You decide to brew a special beer to impress the Dwarf King when you next visit him. How does it turn out?

Your fighter pal, who has no such background (but, we will say, identical attributes and level to you) wants to make some beer, too. How does his turn out?

You both roll a 10 on a D20.

 

[FireLance]

You decide to brew a special beer to impress the Dwarf King when you next visit him. How does it turn out?

According to the post by Mearls in the link above, the answer is:

"Stuff like sailor and blacksmithing is now treated as a character background, something a player includes in his character's backstory. Page 11 of the DMG talks about how to work those into an adventure."

 

[Tenebras]

Cool.

You decide to brew a special beer to impress the Dwarf King when you next visit him. How does it turn out?

Your fighter pal, who has no such background (but, we will say, identical attributes and level to you) wants to make some beer, too. How does his turn out?

You both roll a 10 on a D20.

And I look at those d20 rolls and say "Um... Spent a lot of money on those dice and wanted to make sure they worked?"

The answer to your question is that the dwarf king tastes the beer brewed by the dwarf who has a history of brewing and announces that it is a worthy stout from a stout friend of the kingdom. He then tastes Fighter McFighterson's beer and coughs it out onto his beard, pronouncing it foul swill indeed.

Perhaps after this Mr. McFighterson will take up brewmastering in earnest and, during the downtime between adventures, will perfect his brewing recipes. When next the party encounters a beer happy king he will be able to produce a fine pilsener to complement the king of the elves more refined tastes.

Oh, and um, if you want to roll some dice in there to keep yourself busy, feel free. But it doesn't make any difference to me what the results are.

 

[Lizard]

And I look at those d20 rolls and say "Um... Spent a lot of money on those dice and wanted to make sure they worked?"
.

And how IS your Amber game going?

 

[Shroomy]

I asked my question more out of curiousity than anything else, I don't really need a full-fleshed out mechanical system for that kind of stuff. However, I would be really interested to know exactly what is on the DMG pg 11. Can anyone given a quick summation?

 

[Tenebras]

And how IS your Amber game going?

It's quite a leap from "roleplaying and story elements can be handled by talking them out" to "dice bad."

I think that having skills for things that should be in the little box titled "Background" is a bit silly. A fighter of average intelligence cannot be a wizard with ropes, have excellence balance, sail a ship and be able to play the lute?

The local lord offers a land grant to the brewer who brings him the finest IPA by the end of the year. The party is at level 9 on the cusp of 10. Fighter McFighterson has been putting skill points in brewing ever since the debacle with the dwarf king. His horsemanship has suffered but he hits level 10 and puts another skill point into his check goes up to +7 (7 skill points and no int bonus. He didn't start this whole brewing thing until he was 3rd level.)

Stabby St. John, the party rogue, decides to get cute and burns all his skill points on Craft (Beer) when he levels to 10. His check is now +18 (13 ranks and a +5 int).

So, you both roll 10 on a d20. Who has the better beer?