Crawling

[Felon]

In my last session, the rogue was prone and wondering if he could use Tumble to sshift his 3 squares or Deft Strike to move 2 squares before attacking. Assuming that you have to crawl when prone (the phrasing of the crawl rules makes it sound optional, and nothing in the prone condition's description states impaired movement), it seems that the rules indicate he could move any way he wanted as long as it was no more than half his movement. I certainly have no problem with someone tumbling while they're laying on the ground.

Thought I'd get some outside input though. Maybe you guys have read something I haven't.

 

[Harr]

* Slight KotS Spoilers *

During one of the fights in KotS, there's a squad of hobgoblins with a hobgoblin commander. The commander has an ability that lets all hobgob allies within 5 squares shift 3 squares. When he used this ability a couple of hobgobs were prone, but I ruled it that they crawled 'commando style' during their 3 squares and ended their shift still prone. Noone had a problem with this; it was actually kinda cool

 

[keterys]

The rules for prone are currently lacking. There is no rule preventing you from shfting while prone.

Or running.

What the rule should be is up for considerable debate.

 

[Mort_Q]

What the rule should be is up for considerable debate.

That's an order of operations kind of issue, isn't it?

I'm trying to remember what the issue is... whether it's capped at 2 squares or do we get 2 + 2 = 4 ... is that it?

 

[Surgoshan]

Crawl
When you are prone, you can crawl.
* Prone: You must be prone to crawl.
* Movement: Move up to half your speed.
* Provoke Opportunity Attacks: As normal.

So I'd say, yes, you can run while prone. It's a very fast crawl. The disadvantages would be that you'd get a -5 to any attacks you might make OR if you stand up after runcrawling, you'd still grant combat advantage until the end of your next turn, from running, even though the prone condition had ended.

And if someone wants to shift while prone, from a power or some such, then you say he can and cut it in half.

If he wants to shift just because people can shift, then no. He can't shift because 1 square divided by 2 rounded down equals 0 squares of shifting.

 

[Kordeth]

That's an order of operations kind of issue, isn't it?

I'm trying to remember what the issue is... whether it's capped at 2 squares or do we get 2 + 2 = 4 ... is that it?

You're thinking of the "run while slowed" issue, I think.

 

[senorcoo]

I wouldn't have a problem with allowing a shift from prone/crawling, since the rules for crawling say you have to be prone and both shifting and crawling are move actions. As a DM, I'd allow the shifting from prone/crawling, but with all conditions associated with them - 1/2 speed from crawl and granting combat advantage/+2 vs. Ranged attacks not adjacent/-2 penalty to attack from Prone.

 

[Particle_Man]

btw, I got this from CustServ:

Shifting represents careful, tactical movement, and you would not be able to move in such a way while laying on the ground. Although it is not specifically detailed in the rules, the spirit of the game suggests that you must be standing to be able to shift. Because it is not specifically stated, however, your DM will have the final say.

 

[melkoriii]

btw, I got this from CustServ:

Shifting represents careful, tactical movement, and you would not be able to move in such a way while laying on the ground. Although it is not specifically detailed in the rules, the spirit of the game suggests that you must be standing to be able to shift. Because it is not specifically stated, however, your DM will have the final say.

Why do ppl call CustServ? In 3.5 they gave crap for answers and they will for 4e.

As for Shifting while prone. Nothing stops you and no you dont cut the shift move in half. Crawling says you can move half your movement not at half speed.

If a Power said move 6 Squares but half your movement is 3 then you can only move the 3. Shifting is 1 square (normally) and is less then 3 and so can move it normally.

You can be very careful while prone and crawling so the CustServ is smoking something.

 

[Alvoros]

In our game (with me DM'ing anyways), I consider crawling to be similar to difficult terrain in some sense.

ie. if you want to do a DOUBLE SHIFT (2 move actions into one), I will let a prone/crawling person shift, but other than that, you must be up and able to move tactically.

Basically, it doesnt really fit a particular rule like the Custserv note mentions....

Just in general...shifting while prone just doesn't "make sense" to me.

Alvo