Creating a full viking world, need an outside oppinion

[ErikTheRed]

Hello guys,(I'm new to the forum, basically subscripted to get some help. hope i enjoy it =])I have been working for some time in a private project: building a complete Viking World that I even plan on releasing to the internet once it is complete. Thing is, I need an outside opinion on some points. I have begun before 5e and was doing it slowly because I hated the 4e's overpowered characters and excess magic-combat oriented style. But with 5e, I am back on full steam to this world, which has the project name "Midgard".First I have to tell you what it is about:- A world that is a somewhat recognizeable scandinavia, however filled with the extraordinary feats of the sagas and eddas.- It is a LOW MAGIC setting, witch was always my favourite way of playing. There are no mage, sorcerer and cleric PCs - It has a dark age feel and social structure.- It's pantheon is the actual norse one, except they are 100% real.- The multiverse has 9 realms of yggdrasil and the ethereal plane.My issues are:- I have come to a stall about the dwarves, because the norse sources are not at all clear about them. The biggest problem is that the 9 realms of Yggdrasil are very unclear. I have two options. 1) I assume Dvergar (dwarves) and Svártalalfar (dark elves) are one and the same, and live in Svartalalfheim. This is the more "oficial" standing, adopted by neopagans. It means no Drow in this world, and it doesn't give me Svatalalfheim as a realm to fill with nasty monsters. This means no orcs and half orcs. This was my initial idea, because I don't feel that goblinoids and orcs fit in a viking world, where the Troll is the main villain (i actually had begun many troll variants so that they would be fought in early and high levels).2) I assume the Dwarves live in another relm called Nidavellir (in this version Hel and Ninflheim are the same place), and that there is a dark variant of the Elves. This would mean the Drow exist, and would avoid identifying Hel with christian Hell - which is a pain in the ass assumption by some. But most importantly it would alow Svartalalfheim to be a place where nasty monsters exist, such as goblins and orcs, and a place they have come from.I think I cannot decide it on my own without consulting as many D&D players as I can. If you wanted to play in a low-magic, viking world, what would you prefer?

 

[I'm A Banana]

I'd ask this main question: what is your goal? To make a world as close as possible to the sagas and reality (but with myth!) or to make a D&D world flavored by those sagas and reality?

If it's the former, you should go with option 1 - you don't need drow or orcs or goblins to make the world interesting.

If it's the latter, you should go with option 2 - it lets current D&D players move into the world more easily.

For me, I think 1 would be the more interesting, definitive choice. It sets the world apart from other "norse-like" D&D settings, and means that your main villains, the trolls, are more likely to see productive use. Not every world needs orcs and goblins, and not having them could make your world more distinct and unique. It forces you to do other things, new things, which is going to be more interesting.

 

[The Grassy Gnoll]

I don't know enough about Norse mythology to comment with as much authority as you possess - what I would say as a potential player in your setting:

First, 5e is not a low-magic system - the majority of the classes have some casting ability, whether overtly or via a feat or archetype. You've said you'll be doing away with pure casters - but what of casting ability in other classes - eg rangers, arcane tricksters, eldritch knights, various feats? You would need to clearly state what classes and abilities players could choose as characters.

Secondly, if you wish to be true to the Viking myths then build the world around that, not around the game. So for monsters you would expect to fight you'd be looking at draugur undead, trolls, elves/dwarfs, and giants I guess - and of course people. If orcs and Drow don't fit into the campaign setting, they don't fit.

Thirdly, as to what I would prefer, I'd prefer a Viking setting to feel Viking. If that means dumping classic D&D monsters, ok. But, the Vikings lived and interacted with cultures from hundreds of miles away and each if them could bring their own monsters to the table with no problem - middle European kobolds, English folk tale hobgoblins, dragons a la Grendel, Middle Eastern djinn...unless the entire world exists as Viking with no competing cultures?

I would actually suggest Dragon Warriors as a low magic game system that has a much more near-earth analogy that may suit your setting better - there is a project among the forum therelooking at developing more details for a Norse/Celtic type setting in their game, a part of the world called Thuland. See here:
http://www.libraryofhiabuor.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=63

 

[Elderbrain]

You may find the books GURPS Vikings (2nd edition) and the AD&D campaign sourcebook Vikings to be of use. Both contain information on historical and mythical Viking roleplaying, as well as details on monsters, magic and (in the AD&D accessory) classes. Both also have lists of Viking names for your PCs and NPCs.

 

[Sword of Spirit]

I wouldn't use the D&D system (any edition) unless you keep most of the D&D tropes. It just isn't worth it. Either of your ideas sounds fun, but I wouldn't want to play the first one in D&D. Once you change it that much use a better system for it. There are numerous systems out that would handle what you want, and plenty of quality systems that are free (some of which were previously commercial games that have since been released for free).

If you did go with D&D for it, the second scenario is the one I'd prefer. (But my overall recommendation is still to ditch D&D for this campaign and go with the first scenario with a more fitting system.)

 

[cheops]

I think you could make light elves similar to the "vaner" (god-like creatures) and dwarves that live under ground, sort of like duergar or dark gnomes/trolls. Would fit in quite nicely with actual mythos. No dark elves or "cultured" dwarves though.

 

[I'm A Banana]

One way to look at how similar books have done it is the 2e-era Viking sourcebook (heavy on fluff but no slack on crunch!). They take a "real-world historical" angle on the setting that runs a little to the low-magic side, though not as low as you seem to go.

 

[Herr der Qual]

I think you could make light elves similar to the "vaner" (god-like creatures) and dwarves that live under ground, sort of like duergar or dark gnomes/trolls. Would fit in quite nicely with actual mythos. No dark elves or "cultured" dwarves though.

The Vanir aren't god-like they are gods, the Vanir and the Aesir are the two houses of gods, the Vanir are the gods that had always existed in the Viking Pantheon, the Aesir are the gods that came into the pantheon from outside cultures.

The Dvargar were very active in Norse mythos, also they need to reside underground as they turn to stone when exposed to the sun (see the legend of Alviss). The Dvargar are cultured, they are renown in Norse mythology, in fact they created the three items that make Thor as powerful as he is, they crafted Mjölnir (his hammer), megingjörð (his belt of strength) and Járngreipr (his iron gloves). They also made the mystical items wielded by Odin, and the rest of the Vanir.

The Dark Elves were a factor in Norse/Viking Mythology. Norse mythology contains both light elves (Ljósálfar who dwell in the realm of Álfheimr) and dark elves (Dökkálfar who dwell in the Earth), there is no realm indicated for their inhabitation other than that they dwell in the same plane as humans, but that they are subterranean and therefore are generally unseen by man.

 

[steeldragons]

I don't know that it will help or hinder your efforts, but you may or may not be aware there is already a campaign setting called Midgard produced and published by Kobold Press.

I have no idea if it is entirely a Norse "reality/real world" setting. I would doubt it. But maybe taking a look might help/they did something with dwarves and dark elves that might be helpful.

 

[Tony Vargas]

Hello guys,(I'm new to the forum, basically subscripted to get some help. hope i enjoy it =])I have been working for some time in a private project: building a complete Viking World that I even plan on releasing to the internet once it is complete. Thing is, I need an outside opinion on some points. I have begun before 5e and was doing it slowly because I hated the 4e's overpowered characters and excess magic-combat oriented style.

I'm sorry for you, that you so badly misread 4e, there, as it was a golden opportunity to run low- and no-magic games that actually worked.
Ah well, I'm glad you're enthused about 5e...

But with 5e, I am back on full steam to this world, which has the project name "Midgard".First I have to tell you what it is about:- A world that is a somewhat recognizeable scandinavia, however filled with the extraordinary feats of the sagas and eddas.- It is a LOW MAGIC setting, witch was always my favourite way of playing.

5e is designed without the assumption of magic items or inherent bonuses, so that brand of low magic - no magic items or few magic items - works fine. However, while maybe not as bad as 3e or classic D&D, it's still not very functional without casters to provide healing. HD don't go very far and 1 hr rests can be hard to work into a Viking's busy schedule of raiding, looting & pillaging, anyway. Plentiful, conveniently placed healing potions are obviously inappropriate in a low-magic setting.

There are no mage, sorcerer and cleric PCs - It has a dark age feel and social structure.

Well, you leave yourself the Bard and Druid (and you didn't mention banning the Paladin or Ranger) so you've got the needed magical healing potential, there - and the not-so-low-magic feel of PCs who can cast more than a few spells a day, every day, all campaign long. Well, it's a balancing act. Trimming spell lists, for instance, could help you get where you want. Sadly, no class really has the rune-based magic you'd expect in such a setting. The Valor Bard, in particular, should stand in for a Skald with a little tweaking.

It's pantheon is the actual norse one, except they are 100% real.- The multiverse has 9 realms of yggdrasil and the ethereal plane.My issues are:- I have come to a stall about the dwarves, because the norse sources are not at all clear about them. The biggest problem is that the 9 realms of Yggdrasil are very unclear. I have two options. 1) I assume Dvergar (dwarves) and Svártalalfar (dark elves) are one and the same, and live in Svartalalfheim. This is the more "oficial" standing, adopted by neopagans. It means no Drow in this world, and it doesn't give me Svatalalfheim as a realm to fill with nasty monsters. This means no orcs and half orcs. This was my initial idea, because I don't feel that goblinoids and orcs fit in a viking world, where the Troll is the main villain (i actually had begun many troll variants so that they would be fought in early and high levels).

Staying true to the myths sounds good to me. The svart or dro or dwarves never that well-defined, of course. You might split the difference between D&D's Tolkien-esque Dwarves and its inexplicable Drow, and use Duergar or Derro as the svartalfar.

Trolls aren't particularly more clearly defined or consistent than dro, for that matter, so you could use goblinoids and orcs (or just their stats) as examples of lesser troll sub-species or clans or whatever.

2) I assume the Dwarves live in another relm called Nidavellir (in this version Hel and Ninflheim are the same place), and that there is a dark variant of the Elves. This would mean the Drow exist, and would avoid identifying Hel with christian Hell - which is a pain in the ass assumption by some. But most importantly it would alow Svartalalfheim to be a place where nasty monsters exist, such as goblins and orcs, and a place they have come from.I think I cannot decide it on my own without consulting as many D&D players as I can. If you wanted to play in a low-magic, viking world, what would you prefer?

I would like to play in a low-magic game drawing inspiration from Norse Mythology - and I'd want Hel to be called Hel, if I did. False cognates notwithstanding. And I certainly wouldn't want it contaminated by decidedly high-magic, spider-kissing, D&D-style Drow.

I'd also probably want to play a Warlord...