Creating a werebear(lycanthrope) PC.

[dragonis111]

For the most part I understand the rules on how to do it, but there are 2 rules on doing it in which im confused. First off is the ability scores

Ability Scores: +2 Wis, –2 Cha in all forms; +2 Str, +2 Con
in hybrid and animal forms. Lycanthropes have enhanced
senses but are not fully in control of their emotions and
animalistic urges. In addition to these adjustments to the
base creature’s stats, a lycanthrope’s ability scores change
when he assumes hybrid or animal form. In human form,
the lycanthrope’s ability scores are unchanged from the base
creature’s form. In animal and hybrid form, the lycanthrope’s
ability scores are the same as the base creature’s or the base
animal’s, whichever ability score is higher.

The second part of that says the human form ability scores are unchanged, but the first part says all forms get a +2 wis and -2 cha, also for hybrid and animal forms, do I just use the animal stats with a +2 to str, con, and wis, and the -2 to cha?

My other question is about the rules for playing a powerful character, it says to use the werebear's cr 4 as it's class levels but the werebear in bestiary 2 already has 4 ranger levels, also lycanthrope CR's are either the base creatures or the animals, whichever is higher +1, so what is a werebear's true cr with no class levels? my party is level 4 and my werebear wont be a ranger, probably fighter or druid or barbarian, basically what I am asking is, my party is 4th level, so how many class levels can my werebear have or would I need to wait for a higher level party to make one?

Thanks in advance, Dylan.

 

[Salthorae]

Well I can answer the first question pretty easily, though confusingly worded. In sum, Yes.

When in hybrid/animal form you get the better of either your human or animal scores for physical scores (Str/Dex/Con) and +2 to Str and +2 to Con.

Your mental stats are always the same and adjusted by +2 Wis/ -2 Cha.

As a lycanthrope you gain Change Shape, which functions as Polymorph, which when used to gain an animal shape functions as Beast Shape II, except where specifically noted.

Basically the new polymorph rules are that non of your abilities change except as noted in the spell. For a lycanthrope that means that their stats only change as noted, in hybrid/animal form for the two physical and always for the two mental.

Per the special ability:
Change Shape (Su) A creature with this special quality has the ability to assume the appearance of a specific creature or type of creature (usually a humanoid), but retains most of its own physical qualities. A creature cannot change shape to a form more than one size category smaller or larger than its original form. This ability functions as a polymorph spell, the type of which is listed in the creature's description, but the creature does not adjust its ability scores (although it gains any other abilities of the creature it mimics). Unless otherwise stated, it can remain in an alternate form indefinitely. Some creatures, such as lycanthropes, can transform into unique forms with special modifiers and abilities. These creatures do adjust their ability scores, as noted in their description.

As to the second question, it is very confusing to me what the "power level" of a werebear is. It shows CR 4, but it is a 4th Level Ranger, which means that the CR of a level 4 ranger is 3 because a lycanthrope is CR+1. All that is beside the point however because the Monsters as PCs reference says to use CR to gauge level only for those creatures who have Racial HD, which Lycanthropy no longer gives, it is just CR +1, but I can't imagine a Natural Lycanthrope who gets stat increases and DR 10/Silver as only counting as 1 level for starting more powerful...

I would fall back on the 3.5 LA +3 for Natural Lycanthropes personally, so 1 class level would make you level 4...

Alternately you could assume that a CR4 Werebear is correct and instead of Ranger you can use whatever 4 levels of class you'd like to...

As far as I can tell though, the Pathfinder Lycanthropes only count as +1 ECL...

 

[Werebat]

Lycanthropes are one of the two things I do NOT like about PF rules as opposed to 3.5 (the other being the spiked chain and exotic weapons in general). My advice is to scrap PF lycanthropy rules and use the ones from 3.5.

Something about a werebear with 3 hit points just... bugs me.

 

[dragonis111]

I might just end up mixing the rules a bit, I really like the 3.5 rules, Ill think Ill just use that but drop the racial hit dice and lower the LA from +3 to +2, does that sound good? I just don't think lycanthropes should automatically get racial hit dice, it should only increase whatever HD the base creature had if any.

 

[N'raac]

One challenge of "monster as character" is that Challenge Rating assesses how effective the creature is against PC's, not as PC's. For example, the ability to regenerate, say, 1 hp per minute seems unlikely to make a monster a much greater challenge against the PC's - even in a lengthy fight, getting back even 1 hp is unlikely.

But a PC can regain 60 hp (an 11th caster level Cure Critical Wounds, or almost 6 1d8+5 CLW spells) in an hour, so the party's healing resources can last a lot longer.

Damage Reduction against all but magic weapons isn't all that powerful against PC's above very low levels - they all have magic weapons anyway. But what percentage of PC opponents have no magical weapons (perhaps because they fight with natural weapons)? This is a much greater advantage to the PC - and how many PC opponents will have silver weapons to bypass a Lycanthrope's DR?

 

[dragonis111]

N'raac, you make some really interesting points.