Creeping Cold Problem

[Hecabus]

Creeping cold is a 2nd level spell from Masters of the Wild that lasts for three rounds and does 1d6 damage the first round, 2d6 the second and 3d6 the third. The Druid player in my campaign is now extending it so that it does 4d6, then 5d6 and finally 6d6 in the sixth round. Is this right? Is it over powered?

My problem with this is for a 3rd level slot, the druid is doing 21d6 of cold damage to a single creature with only 1 save and no way to get rid of it short of a dispel magic.

On a similar note, what is stopping you from extending a Melf's Acid Arrow? By the rule, if you don't have something to neutralize the acid (who carries Vinegar) you continue to take damage for up to 7 rounds.

How do these spells get around the maximum spell damage for a single target?

I have already rule 0ed Miasma as it amounts to an unsaveable death spell that will kill virtually any single character and we are going to us the Epic ready version of Harm and Heal (we'll see what happens with 3.5)

Any opinions would be welcomed.

 

[kreynolds]

Creeping cold is a 2nd level spell from Masters of the Wild that lasts for three rounds and does 1d6 damage the first round, 2d6 the second and 3d6 the third. The Druid player in my campaign is now extending it so that it does 4d6, then 5d6 and finally 6d6 in the sixth round. Is this right?

I've ruled that spells such as this, when extended, continue to deal the same amount of damage as the normal last round. So, an extended creeping cold would continue to deal 3d6 during the fourth, fifth, sixth, etc. I'm not sure if that's how its officially handled though.

On a similar note, what is stopping you from extending a Melf's Acid Arrow?

Nothing.

By the rule, if you don't have something to neutralize the acid (who carries Vinegar) you continue to take damage for up to 7 rounds.

Yup.

How do these spells get around the maximum spell damage for a single target?

They don't...at least not in my games. Not with this feat, anyway.

I have already rule 0ed Miasma as it amounts to an unsaveable death spell that will kill virtually any single character..

I recommend using Crisis of Breath from the PsiH as a replacement for Miasma.

 

[Nifft]

I play a Druid, and it hasn't come up yet, but I'd say that Extended Creeping Cold would do two rounds of each damage level:

1) 1d6
2) 1d6
3) 2d6
4) 2d6
5) 3d6
6) 3d6

This doubles the damage to 12d6 (for a 3rd level spell!), but also doubles the spell's disadvantage -- the long onset time.

Alternately, having it "reverse" (like Heat or Chill Metal) would work out to the same total damage:

1) 1d6
2) 2d6
3) 3d6
4) 3d6
5) 2d6
6) 1d6

-- Nifft

 

[AuraSeer]

I play a Druid, and it hasn't come up yet, but I'd say that Extended Creeping Cold would do two rounds of each damage level:

I prefer this method. It remains decently powerful, as it still does more total damage than a Fireball can, but it's no longer the perfect fire-and-flee assassination spell.

 

[Saint Brendan]

Extending Creeping Cold makes it way too powerful. In comparison, take a look at Greater Creeping Cold on page 89 of MotW. It is 7th level and would only do 6D6 damage maximum when cast by a 20th level caster.

 

[Saeviomagy]

Simply put, your player is reading the spell correctly, and applying the feat correctly. He is completely within the rules, and there are no official errata for those rules.

Unfortunately, the suggestions being given are not ideal either. For the "two rounds of each damage category", the spell is being rebalanced, not necessarily made more powerful. If the fight is over in 3 rounds, the spell did 4d6 damage instead of 6d6, becoming less powerful. Repeating the last round's damage still blows the damage cap (the spell does 15d6 damage as a 3rd level spell). Furthermore it does so by a lot. Having the damage cycle doesn't make a lot of sense - and what happens when the spell is double or triple extended?

I would suggest that the spell needs to be changed to instantaeneous to avoid this. It really can't be balanced with extend in any meaningful way. Changing it to instant would mean that extend doesn't work with it, but that it cannot be dispelled either, and I think that's a balancing tradeoff.

As for continuous damage spells blowing damage caps? Typically when you want damage from a spell, you want it NOW. In exchange for getting it later, you get a bonus.

Ask yourself which is more powerful - 2d6 damage a round for 10 rounds or 10d6 in a single hit? 10d6 in a single is usually more useful.

 

[Nifft]

It's not just because fights are short -- 6d6 damage at once has a far better chance of overcoming elemental resistance.

Saeviomagy: it's 12d6, not 15d6.

-- Nifft

 

[Stalker0]

I think cycling the damage is the best solution and makes sense if you alter your thinking of extend spell. Don't think of it as just elongating the spell, think of it as renewing the spell. So a creeping cold would be renewed, adn therefore start its damage over again.

 

[kreynolds]

...think of it as renewing the spell. So a creeping cold would be renewed, adn therefore start its damage over again.

Isn't that what Repeat Spell is for?

 

[Pielorinho]

I'd go for the 1d6, 2d6, 3d6, 3d6, 3d6, 3d6. While it does more damage than any other 3rd level spell, it does it over six rounds, making it significantly less powerful than a spell that does 10d6 in a single round.

Similarly, an extended heat metal IMC works like this:
1st round: hot
2nd round: 1d4 damage
3-12th round: 2d4 damage
13th round: 1d4 damage
14th round: hot

This gives you a 3rd level spell that does 22d4 damage to multiple opponents. Nasty, but given the long period of time over which the damage applies, I don't think it's too awful.

Daniel