Criticisms of 5e

[Reed Makamson]

Nothing's perfect, whats your least favorite thing about 5th edition?

Mine is buying gear is still such an arithmetical hassel. would have loved to seen some gear packages or something to chunk or streamline the process a little.

 

[Falling Icicle]

Limits. I hate having an artificial cap on how many successes ("hits") I can roll.

 

[Abstruse]

Limits. I hate having an artificial cap on how many successes ("hits") I can roll.

Sorry, Limits are the only way to use the 4A style dice pools and fix the game. It solves at least two major problems and three minor ones I've had with the game system all the way back to 1st Ed - the biggest being gear redundancy. Stuff that used to give a flat bonus to the number of dice you roll instead increase limits. It works.

The only serious non-errata-fixable issue I've run across so far is in skills. Tried to make this edition's version of the decker I've played since 2nd Ed. That character has absolutely no need whatsoever for Skill Groups. Since I'm taking Priority C for Skills, I've got 2 points usable only for Skill Groups. Can't use them for Cracking or Electronics because I can't raise them high enough to be usable. And those are the only groups I'd use all the skills. Only other skills I need are Etiquette (Matrix) and Pistols. But there's no way for me to "sell" those two points back for anything else, and I can't take a lower priority because I need the 28 skill points I've got.

 

[darjr]

I really like the idea of the max hits. It seems to me to emulate what real world limits might be. Stacking things in your favor is very good and all, but if the equipment just can't help you past a certain limit then it can't.

 

[Abstruse]

I really like the idea of the max hits. It seems to me to emulate what real world limits might be. Stacking things in your favor is very good and all, but if the equipment just can't help you past a certain limit then it can't.

It makes perfect sense to me. From an in-world perspective, you can train yourself in a particular skill, but you're still limited by what your body can actually do. I play guitar for 1-3 hours a day, but I'm never going to be that good because I have an old injury in one of my fingers that prevents it from moving properly. Even equipment limits like accuracy...you take the best sharpshooter in the world and give them a crappy Saturday night special, there's only so much they can do with it because it's just not a precise weapon.

From a metagame perspective, it works even better because, again, it fixes a lot of problems in the game. It gives a lot of gear new stuff to do. Rather than your Smartlink just giving you +2 dice to hit, instead it gives +2 Accuracy to your gun, thus increasing your Limit when firing that weapon. Hell, they managed to fix the single most broken piece of bioware since 1st Edition because of Limits - Enhanced Articulation. It was so broken, MAGIC USERS would sacrifice a point of their Magic attribute just to get that piece of bioware. It gave you +1 reaction and +1 to all Athletics-related tests (which included DODGE in 4A, for crying out loud!). Now, it increases your physical limit by 1, which itself is very powerful but isn't NEARLY as broken as it was in every single other edition of the game.

 

[Falling Icicle]

It works.

Yes, it works. But that doesn't mean I have to like it. I don't like the idea of rolling, getting 6 successes, getting exited about my great roll, but oh no, your limit for that roll is 3, so there's no reason to get excited at all. Those extra successes are wasted and useless. It feels like a major letdown to me. I'd much rather roll fewer dice and be able to enjoy whatever luck I get with them.

It makes perfect sense to me. From an in-world perspective, you can train yourself in a particular skill, but you're still limited by what your body can actually do. I play guitar for 1-3 hours a day, but I'm never going to be that good because I have an old injury in one of my fingers that prevents it from moving properly.

There are plenty of other ways of representing that, mechanically. You could have a lower attribute, you could have a flaw that gives you penalties on your roll due to your injury, etc.

Even equipment limits like accuracy...you take the best sharpshooter in the world and give them a crappy Saturday night special, there's only so much they can do with it because it's just not a precise weapon.

There's always luck. Yes, I know you can spend edge to break the limit. But I hate that. Every time you roll the dice, you're subject to good or bad luck. I don't like having to pay a "tax" to benefit from a good roll.

I really like the idea of the max hits. It seems to me to emulate what real world limits might be. Stacking things in your favor is very good and all, but if the equipment just can't help you past a certain limit then it can't.

There already is a limit - your dice pool. If you are only rolling 5 dice, you can only get 5 successes. The limit in 5e is an additional limit on top of that, and I think it's unnecessary and un-fun. But that's just my opinion. If you like it, more power to you.

 

[trancejeremy]

Hell, they managed to fix the single most broken piece of bioware since 1st Edition because of Limits - Enhanced Articulation. It was so broken, MAGIC USERS would sacrifice a point of their Magic attribute just to get that piece of bioware. It gave you +1 reaction and +1 to all Athletics-related tests (which included DODGE in 4A, for crying out loud!). Now, it increases your physical limit by 1, which itself is very powerful but isn't NEARLY as broken as it was in every single other edition of the game.

I don't see why that is a bad thing. That's sort of supposed to be the lure of the burnt out mage, getting cyberware (or bioware in this case) at the expense of their magic ability.

Anyway, I do think it illustrates the problem you always get in new editions that change things - some people like the changes, some people prefer the old way.

Unless you grab a whole bunch of people who left the game, you just whittle away your fanbase

 

[Abstruse]

I don't see why that is a bad thing. That's sort of supposed to be the lure of the burnt out mage, getting cyberware (or bioware in this case) at the expense of their magic ability.

Yes, and there's plenty of cyberware that does that. However, there should not be a piece of gear that is so good that EVERY SINGLE CHARACTER gets it by default at character generation. Not in a game as gear-heavy as SHADOWRUN. Now, it is still very useful but it's not something every single player is going to take whether it fits the concept or not.

 

[RockingHurricane]

Nothing's perfect, whats your least favorite thing about 5th edition?

The vast majority of the wireless bonuses do not make any thematic sense at all. I get that the designers wanted to include hackers into combat (although I disagree that it was a pressing need) but the utterly forced down the throat way that they did it, not to mention illogical, makes a lot of folks disregard the bonuses (just see JP and DS forums) and that could lead to balance issues down the road.

 

[Abstruse]

The vast majority of the wireless bonuses do not make any thematic sense at all. I get that the designers wanted to include hackers into combat (although I disagree that it was a pressing need) but the utterly forced down the throat way that they did it, not to mention illogical, makes a lot of folks disregard the bonuses (just see JP and DS forums) and that could lead to balance issues down the road.

They all seem to make sense to me. It seems like they're universally bonuses that make perfect sense that would come from greater communication between gear. Which ones are you having problems with? I've had a bit of tunnel vision with the gear since I've been focused on my three default characters I've played in every edition, so there's quite a few I may not have looked at yet.