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Criticisms of 5e

DarrenThornton

First Post
First off, a bit of history (seriously, I started a Q&A thread about the world because I LOVE the history of this game). When the Matrix crashed in December (of course) 2064, a new wireless Matrix was implemented. It's a lot closer to what current cell phone technology is than wifi internet today, in that's it's broad-spectrum and is pretty much everywhere. There was a MASSIVE shift to cloud computing, which is why no one worries about stuff like storage anymore. Pretty much everything was connected to this new Matrix because the hardware to run it was very expensive (I think the server I bought for my decker in 4A cost me like 300,000¥ and it's a small one). It took more money than a starting character can even get in the game in order for me to be able to pull all my household appliances and everything else off the grid.

In Storm Front (the transition eventbook that shifted SR4 to SR5), the Corporate Court through their Grid Overwatch Division (aka GOD) implemented sweeping new security protocols that locked everything down. In the book, you can see it took months for even legendary deckers like Fastjack to crack the new protocol and it involved breadboxing hardware onto his commlink (thus why we not have commlinks and cyberdecks both in this edition).

Now, commlinks are still pretty necessary for all characters. It stores your ID and your money. In some places like Manhattan, you can be arrested if you don't have a commlink with a PAN broadcasting your SIN. Legitimate users basically use their commlinks as the central unit to manage all their gadgets (and EVERYTHING is a gadget in Shadowrun). Because of this, pretty much all your gear is slaved through your commlink which has a direct connection to your brain for mental commands, either through a datajack or through trodes (more common). Because of this link and the subroutines involved, you're able to perform actions a lot faster through your commlink than you would manually.

Here's the thing...there is no "direct input" for most things unless you mean some sort of manual activation. The commands have to come from somewhere, and that's through your commlink. Unless your stealth armor is directly plugged into your brain (which technically is possible but would look just silly), there's no real way to tell it to change from urban to forest camo when you hop the fence into the park. Those commands come from your commlink, which is why they have to be wirelessly enabled for you to access them on the fly.

For example, the forearm snap blades you mentioned before. In previous editions of the game as well as this edition, the blades are extended or retracted manually through a muscle command - basically, you flex your forearm muscles in a certain way and the blades pop out. Or, if they're wirelessly enabled, you simply think "Blades out" and the blades pop out. It's faster and it doesn't distract you from doing something else with that hand.

The laser sight goes more into what exactly AR is. Augmented Reality is an overlay on your own vision via Image Link cyberware (included with all cybereyes), glasses, or contacts. It displays information as you walk down the street, from advertisements for the sale going on at Stuffer Shack to the single's profile of the girl walking past. This is useful for mundane purposes, but most of the mechanics in Shadowrun revolve around AR's uses in combat. A smartlink, for example, transmits a ton of data about the gun to you - how many rounds you have left, the range to the target you're aiming at, etc. Laser sights do something similar but with less actual information when that data is routed through your commlinks processor - it determines range, it tells you whether the portion of the person you're targeting is protected by armor, stuff like that. It's not as good as a smartlink's detailed info, but it's enough to give you a slight edge in a fight.

The oddball out of your examples is the silencer because at least they tried to explain the wireless bonus on that one. I mean they really tried. It's just a hard concept to get across in two sentences that also include the rules mechanics. It basically works the same way active noise reduction headphones work today. You can mostly cancel out a soundwave by producing another soundwave that specifically mirrors the first one. It's not perfect, but it helps a lot in reducing sounds. And that's what the silencer does - it has a microphone and a speaker on it and, when the gun is fired, the microphone sends the sound to your commlink which analyzes the wave and commands the microphone to produce a countering soundwave, thus further reducing the sound the gun creates. Without the wireless connection to the commlink, there's no processing power available to analyze the soundwave so a counter-wave can't be produced.

I can clarify more if it's still murky or if there are other bonuses that don't make sense. Again, this is a problem with the book trying to cram so much in. The book should have thoroughly explained these concepts as they relate to the game rather than presenting the world as it is and leaving it to you to extrapolate how a lot of this technology works.
Wonderful info bro.. I have been searching for it for a while and finally you shared it.. Thanks again
 

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Derren

Hero
I begin to wonder how criminals are supposed to exist in the setting, and a setting that doesn't actually support the existence of the PCs is kind of problematic.

Not every part of the city has the best security that exists.
At least in older editions every part of the city had a rating, from AAA (Most luxurious and secure) to Z (No law enforcement at all). The lower rating parts of the city as well as feral cities where no law exists at all (Bogotá before Aztlan, GeMiTo, Chigaco) serve as breeding grounds for criminals. THose who survive and get good enough move out into the more profitable higher rating zones. Also there are several organizations which train criminals, including deckers. Organized crime like the Yakuza of course, but also the military (combat hackers), terrorists and the corps itself (counter decking and covert operations). In addition there are anarchists communities who train such people (see Slamm-0! background) and teacher-pupils relationships (like how FastJack and Kane train /dev/grrl)

By the way, this two commlink strategy you propose is also suggested in the books (4E). One broadcasting for the public, the other secured for your PAN.


Note:
Slamm-0!
One of the best hackers around. Raised in an anarchist community and taking that philosophy rather seriously, so does some pro bono jobs to help the oppressed masses and also believes in "the truth must come out, no matter the cost".

FastJack
Arguably the best Decker alive, recently retired

Kane
Notorious Pirate, known for violence. One of the most sought man in the world.

/dev/grrl
15(?) year old girl from a corporate family already doing SHadowruns and being quite good at it (decking).
 
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Lurker37

Explorer
The only serious non-errata-fixable issue I've run across so far is in skills. Tried to make this edition's version of the decker I've played since 2nd Ed. That character has absolutely no need whatsoever for Skill Groups. Since I'm taking Priority C for Skills, I've got 2 points usable only for Skill Groups. Can't use them for Cracking or Electronics because I can't raise them high enough to be usable. And those are the only groups I'd use all the skills. Only other skills I need are Etiquette (Matrix) and Pistols. But there's no way for me to "sell" those two points back for anything else, and I can't take a lower priority because I need the 28 skill points I've got.

Can't you buy the Electronics skill group, then use some of the 28 'normal' skill points to split the group and raise all of the individual skills? That's two levels on the all skills in that group, even if they do not end up equal, and six more points for other skills or specialties.
 

Abstruse

Legend
Can't you buy the Electronics skill group, then use some of the 28 'normal' skill points to split the group and raise all of the individual skills? That's two levels on the all skills in that group, even if they do not end up equal, and six more points for other skills or specialties.

Nope. It's specifically stated that you can NOT break skill groups during chargen, only during normal advancement. I proposed an optional rule that allows you to trade Skill Group points for regular skill points on a 2:1 basis (which is still a 33% loss of optimization), but I haven't heard from Randall or Jason yet on it.
 

coyote6

Adventurer
Nope. It's specifically stated that you can NOT break skill groups during chargen, only during normal advancement. I proposed an optional rule that allows you to trade Skill Group points for regular skill points on a 2:1 basis (which is still a 33% loss of optimization), but I haven't heard from Randall or Jason yet on it.

I house ruled 4e to let people buy & break skill groups during character generation; I'll probably do the same in 5e, if we ever get around to playing it. I like awesome PCs. :)
 

Abstruse

Legend
I house ruled 4e to let people buy & break skill groups during character generation; I'll probably do the same in 5e, if we ever get around to playing it. I like awesome PCs. :)

I love houserules and use them regularly in pretty much every system I run...EXCEPT Shadowrun. I will do it if I have to in order to fix a serious problem, but I loathe breaking the Shadowrun system because I've spent way too much time on learning the damn thing (I'm one of the few people I know that knows the decking rules for every edition of the game FFS).
 

coyote6

Adventurer
I had a fair grasp of the 4e hacking rules when I was running it. One of the PCs was a street sam/hacker (since hacking didn't use any mental stats, it was pretty easy to make a gun bunny that hacked as a starting character), so the rules got used quite a bit. I also knew the 1e rules, but that was because I played a decker; I'm pretty sure I knew the rules better than the guy GMing.

By the time we played 2e, we all decided that NPC deckers were wonderful, so I the decking in that game was mostly just rolling dice to see how well the NPC did.

But, I will house rule pretty much any game, and Shadowrun is for sure not exempt.
 

jeffhartsell

First Post
Nope. It's specifically stated that you can NOT break skill groups during chargen, only during normal advancement. I proposed an optional rule that allows you to trade Skill Group points for regular skill points on a 2:1 basis (which is still a 33% loss of optimization), but I haven't heard from Randall or Jason yet on it.

I think in step seven of char gen you can use the free karma to split skill groups.
 

Abstruse

Legend
Nope. I'm in the middle of Shadowrun Returns right now, or I'd look it up. Not only do the rules specifically say you can't split skill groups, but Jason Hardy's confirmed it.
 

jeffhartsell

First Post
Hmm. Then I don't understand this quote from page 98 in step seven... "When spending Karma for attributes or skills, refer to the rules for improving the character in the Character Advancement section (p. 103)."

Also, page 88 in step five... "Note that skill groups can be broken up in Step Seven: Spend Your Left Over Karma (p. 98)."

Seems like you can split up a skill group during character creation, just not with skill points, but with the free karma.

Side note: I like the addition of karma to char gen as well as going back to the priority system.
 
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