crusader weapon as implement again, sorry

[aco175]

I remember looking at some of these threads in the past, but do not wish to try and find it. I'm guessing a dozen people can fill me in right now.

I just got a crusaders weapon that allows you to use it as an implement. I know that the +1 part is fine with spells, but because it is an implement and weapon, can I take feats that work on either such as wpn focus, inplement focus, and the most rule bending IMHO dwarf wpn training. My character is a dwarf and the +2 to damage with ax and hammer sounds like it may work with spells, but sounds cheap.

Thanks for taking the time to bring this up again.

 

[-Avalon-]

I personally do not know the answer... my suggestion? Ask the sage.

I would like to know the answer when you get one though.

 

[Obryn]

I just got a crusaders weapon that allows you to use it as an implement. I know that the +1 part is fine with spells, but because it is an implement and weapon,

Yep!

can I take feats that work on either such as wpn focus, inplement focus, and the most rule bending IMHO dwarf wpn training.

Yes to all three. You can also take Focused Expertise to take care of both Weapon and Implement Expertise.

My character is a dwarf and the +2 to damage with ax and hammer sounds like it may work with spells, but sounds cheap.

Thanks for taking the time to bring this up again.

It's only as cheap as any other weapon used as an implement. Sorcerers can take weapon focus in daggers, wizards and invokers can do the same with their staves, swordmages with their blades, and so on. So you're not alone - don't worry about it.

While I agree that it's kind of cheesy (or more specifically, I don't like what it does for implement choice), and I'd like to see separate Weapon and Implement Focus feats, this is how it is and probably will be until a major revision.

-O

 

[FireLance]

By the rules, Weapon Focus and Dwarven Weapon Training would add to the damage rolls of an appropriate weapon even when it is used as an implement. This is because the feats simply add a bonus to damage rolls with the weapon. However, in most cases, feats add a feat bonus to damage rolls, so only the highest bonus applies. Hence, at the Heroic and Paragon tiers, it would be pointless to take Weapon Focus (Axes) or Weapon Focus (Hammers) if you already have Dwarven Weapon Training since you do not get any additional benefit for those feats.

Weapon Expertise is different as it specifies that you get the bonus to attack rolls "with any weapon power you use". Hence, you would not gain the benefit when you use the weapon as an implement. In order to gain the bonus to both weapon powers and implement powers, you would need the Focused Expertise feat from the monk preview in Dragon 375.

Some DMs may not like the idea that feats like Weapon Focus and Dwarven Weapon Training add a bonus to damage rolls even when the weapon is used as an implement and may house-rule that Weapon Focus and similar feats only add a bonus to damage rolls with weapon powers. Hence, despite what the rules say, it is probably best to check with your DM.

 

[Ryujin]

Errata states that weapon and implement expertise feats don't stack. Focused expertise is the way to go.

 

[aco175]

I knew if I gave it an hour I would get great answers. Thank you all.